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hey guys Ryan here the summer in

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Disguise podcast is a labor of love

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very soon monthly Patron Hangouts where

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we sit back and chat all things UFOs so

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patreon subscriber today to learn more

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and to join visit patreon.com summer

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Skies thank you for your support and

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[Music]

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this is somewhere in the skies with Ryan

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spread

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[Music]

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hey guys Ryan Sprague here from

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somewhere in Disguise coming to you live

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from Scotland I'm actually in a hotel

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because I don't have Wi-Fi yet in my new

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apartment in Scotland so you're getting

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um this nice brick background don't get

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used to it it's just for tonight uh this

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is a special occasion I needed the best

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Wi-Fi I could get to make sure that this

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interview went off without a hitch and

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I'm really excited to talk to these guys

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about their new project estimate of the

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situation uh there's a history to this

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project I have been talking and

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discussing it with Tom one of the

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creators of estimate of the situation uh

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for over a year now I remember uh very

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early in the creative stages of this

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comic book series which we're going to

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be talking about tonight uh him sending

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me ideas and and images about what this

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comic book was going to be and the

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minute I saw what these guys were doing

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I was all in and it's here here it is

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finally here so we're gonna get the you

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know the breakdown of what the comic is

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how it became to be and um yeah just

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hear about the creative and research

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process process of estimate of the

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situation so without further Ado let's

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bring them in we have Tom or zachowski

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and John zoitos the writers and creators

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of estimate of the situation gentlemen

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welcome to somewhere in the skies

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what's up man thank you man yeah very

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excited to be here uh this is our first

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one you know we've uh we've just been

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burning the midnight candle and uh you

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know like we're finally excited to

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actually talk about it for a second you

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know and you got a chance to read it so

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that's even uh even better

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yes now you guys were kind enough to

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send me an advanced copy of the first

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issue of the comic and uh

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yeah it blew me away and you know again

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here it's somewhere in the skies we

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support any creatives that get

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themselves uh entangled into this weird

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UFO community and world that uh we live

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in every day and I know you guys are uh

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are feeling that now you know I know

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this isn't the first or last show you're

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gonna be on talking about this but um I

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actually want to start with uh Comic-Con

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you guys recently attended New York

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Comic-Con and you had a booth there and

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everything to uh promote the comics so

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yeah let's start there what was it like

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going to New York Comic-Con and actually

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like being able to show your work there

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I can't even imagine oh man well it uh I

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mean it was fun don't get me wrong but

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uh we actually submit an application way

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back in the summer and we never heard

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from anybody right so we were like okay

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well we know the the barrier entry is

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pretty high so we're like okay we didn't

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get in et cetera Etc

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um then two weeks prior to comic con

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actually like you know happening we got

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an email saying like hey we have a booth

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available do you guys still want it you

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know and so we're just like I remember

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asking John like should we do this like

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this is this is really the last minute

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we didn't even have the first issue

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finished yet you know what I mean like

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we're like what the hell do we do

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um then we just said yes and we took it

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and uh we worked literally day and night

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to get the first issue out with our

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artists we were editing you know until

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like six in the morning

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um then like doing the same thing the

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next day for days and then also setting

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up the booth like getting the posters

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and all that stuff and we had no idea

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what to expect really

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um but it was fun like once we got there

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once we got settled I gotta say like the

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uh you know we're we're nobodies

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basically New Kids on the Block but like

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the reception we got was really cool you

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know people who were interested in this

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topic like came over and asked us what

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this was about and as soon as we told

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them you know like that it's based on

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Declassified documents etc etc you know

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they were in right but like what's even

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more interesting they were in they would

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bought the copy then they would talk to

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us about like Chemtrails for 40 minutes

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or their experience or something like

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that you know like like a vast majority

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of things so it was really interesting

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communicating with people that way and

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they showed us like yeah there there's

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you know not just a market for this but

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there's people hungry for some something

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like this because like you know every

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other UFO story is basically like an

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Independence Day Invasion movie you know

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it just it it's it's it's cheap for for

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lack of a better word

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um and seeing the enthusiasm there was

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pretty cool and of course comic-con's

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Comic-Con man like we

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um it was massive we ended up just

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buying a bunch of stuff that we didn't

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need you know like every time we'd go to

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the bathroom we'd come back with like a

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like a 40 poster or something where it's

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like oh my God

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spending any profit you might have made

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yeah that sounds like Comic-Con yeah

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yeah no uh John what was your experience

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like

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great I mean I gotta say the way Tom was

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able to pull everything together was

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quite amazing I mean literally we were

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editing every day I mean I'm at work

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sending him

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dialogue edits and he's sending me back

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notes and we're going back and forth

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like through WhatsApp and text

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um so it really was uh uh like trial by

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fire

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um like that setup right there with the

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you know we he went to Staples got the

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big tablecloth put it over got the

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posters

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um you know we had to I did not think we

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were going to show up in Comic-Con with

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a printed issue because the artist also

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had to bring back panels so I thought we

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were going to come with like a business

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card and pamphlets and

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um you know maybe an email list and it's

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like we'll let you know when it comes

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out

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um because we you know we understood

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that it was a great opportunity to get

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that Booth also because we can get it

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next year as well

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um you kind of hold it in contracts

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we're like you know what it's worth it

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anyway

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um but really the best biggest part of

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it the best part was the momentum it

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gave us and the drive it gave us to

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actually finish the issue

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um you know the issue we have which you

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got uh you know black and white but um

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the black one it actually looks great so

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yeah it's almost like uh black and white

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limited edition uh I guess

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but yeah it was a blast I mean um and

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really inspiring just being around and

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seeing all the other create our own work

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too like it actually made me feel and

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I'm sure Tom as well like oh we're

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actually in this now like we're actually

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creators because like you said we're

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we're nobody's we're just starting now

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yeah I made it real well

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right I can only imagine that surreal

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moment of just sitting there and having

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someone hold something you know that

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you'd been working on um you know as a

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author or or even a podcaster like when

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people reach out to me and say hey I

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listen to your show you don't think

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about that as someone who is just

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cranking this stuff out like it's a job

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for you and you know you're you're just

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worried about getting out the next show

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and the next show you don't stop to

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think wow people are actually reading my

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work they're actually listening to the

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show and those are truly the moments

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where you're like yeah this is like this

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is real this is happening and you know I

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was watching your guys social media and

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seeing all the people holding the you

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know the uh the first issue and that

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that had to feel pretty awesome even saw

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Dan zetterstrom or our mutual colleague

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and here in the UK UFO researcher with

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one of the copies who traveled all the

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way from England to come over there and

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um meet you guys and and do some other

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stuff over there but that that must have

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been pretty cool like you know having

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actual UFO researchers show up to the

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booth and be like yup stamp of approval

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yep it's good yeah yeah no he came by it

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was pretty cool um he came by there was

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a an experiencer uh a talk with Gary

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Nolan and a bunch of others so like you

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know it was happening during the same

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time as Comic-Con on Saturday I got to

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meet everybody afterwards like Dan Jay

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uh Tupa a bunch of others so like that

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was that was like really really fun it

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was really really interesting you know

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and I gotta say too like I gotta shout

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out you know Dairy Fletcher who those

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posters you see in our cover art he's

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the one that did it and like this guy is

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just amazing you know like I found him

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on UFO Twitter and he's been such an

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integral part of the project since you

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know like I I

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he did the cover that you're seeing

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right now on the left side the red one

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and like all the all the other you know

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the military installation things like

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that and uh yeah I mean it was such a it

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was a show stopper because people come

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by and like that's the first thing they

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would see and that's why they would come

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to the booth and talk to us and you know

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again this just proved that like this

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community runs deep and there's a lot of

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talent here and a lot of people who are

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passionate about this you know and dairy

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is just one of those people that has

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like come through every single time and

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even like queued me up like hey uh do

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you need anything for me I have XYZ days

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off I'm like uh yeah give me a second

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let me figure out what I need

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um even if I didn't need anything you

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know just because he's still talented

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um so again this community is just one

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of those things that like it's it's it

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does it's a very Niche Community

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um and it's it's you know there's a

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there's personalities within the

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community but overall everyone's in

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00:10:25,070 --> 00:10:23,459
there for the same reason uh they are

273
00:10:27,350 --> 00:10:25,080
passionate about this subject and they

274
00:10:28,790 --> 00:10:27,360
they do want to see it you know done

275
00:10:31,370 --> 00:10:28,800
Justice one way or another where it's

276
00:10:33,769 --> 00:10:31,380
you know advocating for disclosure

277
00:10:36,470 --> 00:10:33,779
um you know uh completing historical

278
00:10:38,630 --> 00:10:36,480
record or representation in media that

279
00:10:41,509 --> 00:10:38,640
isn't just like you know spooky X-Files

280
00:10:43,610 --> 00:10:41,519
music with like you know bug monsters or

281
00:10:46,310 --> 00:10:43,620
something like that so yeah

282
00:10:48,829 --> 00:10:46,320
right and I think that's what uh and

283
00:10:51,650 --> 00:10:48,839
we'll definitely discuss kind of the the

284
00:10:54,470 --> 00:10:51,660
uh theme and the tone of the comic but

285
00:10:56,930 --> 00:10:54,480
yeah you guys aren't going with a little

286
00:10:59,630 --> 00:10:56,940
green men at least not yet uh the story

287
00:11:02,389 --> 00:10:59,640
you're telling is very uh it's a side of

288
00:11:05,030 --> 00:11:02,399
ufology that a lot of people don't cover

289
00:11:08,810 --> 00:11:05,040
and that's what I found most interesting

290
00:11:11,870 --> 00:11:08,820
about it is this idea of um you know how

291
00:11:14,030 --> 00:11:11,880
this topic can be used in certain ways

292
00:11:17,090 --> 00:11:14,040
and for certain motives within the US

293
00:11:20,569 --> 00:11:17,100
government and intelligence agencies but

294
00:11:23,269 --> 00:11:20,579
uh I'm getting ahead of myself John

295
00:11:25,970 --> 00:11:23,279
um I know kind of Tom's origin story but

296
00:11:27,650 --> 00:11:25,980
I love to know like what what got you

297
00:11:30,410 --> 00:11:27,660
and Tom I want to know this too from you

298
00:11:32,690 --> 00:11:30,420
what got you guys interested in UFOs to

299
00:11:35,090 --> 00:11:32,700
begin with what's kind of your um your

300
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:35,100
initiation into this crazy weird world

301
00:11:41,210 --> 00:11:39,360
of UFOs uh experiences or just growing

302
00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:41,220
up with the X-Files I'd love to hear

303
00:11:46,310 --> 00:11:44,160
each of your uh your origin stories John

304
00:11:48,050 --> 00:11:46,320
let's start with you yeah I mean what's

305
00:11:52,310 --> 00:11:48,060
interesting I you know I don't

306
00:11:54,590 --> 00:11:52,320
um I was never big into uh the UFOs or

307
00:11:56,630 --> 00:11:54,600
UFO Theory it was really Tom that came

308
00:11:57,949 --> 00:11:56,640
to me with I mean we would have

309
00:11:59,750 --> 00:11:57,959
discussions over it over the years

310
00:12:01,370 --> 00:11:59,760
because we love to have our conspiracy

311
00:12:02,930 --> 00:12:01,380
discussions we met in acting school

312
00:12:04,730 --> 00:12:02,940
became good friends we've known each

313
00:12:06,889 --> 00:12:04,740
other what time like eight years now

314
00:12:08,870 --> 00:12:06,899
almost yeah yeah

315
00:12:10,670 --> 00:12:08,880
um and so he came to me with this

316
00:12:13,550 --> 00:12:10,680
project I did which I thought was

317
00:12:15,949 --> 00:12:13,560
fascinating right off the bat

318
00:12:18,470 --> 00:12:15,959
um so I came on board that way but

319
00:12:21,530 --> 00:12:18,480
really I was an outsider coming in

320
00:12:23,810 --> 00:12:21,540
really looking at it with fresh eyes I

321
00:12:25,910 --> 00:12:23,820
didn't know the specifics certainly not

322
00:12:29,150 --> 00:12:25,920
the specifics of

323
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:29,160
um the UFO sightings throughout the 40s

324
00:12:32,810 --> 00:12:31,200
um I knew basically about Kenneth Arnold

325
00:12:35,750 --> 00:12:32,820
that was about it

326
00:12:38,210 --> 00:12:35,760
um in the way Kenneth Arnold you know uh

327
00:12:40,310 --> 00:12:38,220
is sort of this pop culture figure

328
00:12:41,210 --> 00:12:40,320
um and maybe a little more than that you

329
00:12:43,370 --> 00:12:41,220
know maybe a little more than your

330
00:12:45,350 --> 00:12:43,380
average Layman but for the most part

331
00:12:46,910 --> 00:12:45,360
um I came in through Tom and it was

332
00:12:48,170 --> 00:12:46,920
really through doing the research for

333
00:12:50,210 --> 00:12:48,180
this project that I became really

334
00:12:51,530 --> 00:12:50,220
fascinated with the UFO Theory

335
00:12:53,629 --> 00:12:51,540
um I mean that's really what it was

336
00:12:56,509 --> 00:12:53,639
really research first because I was

337
00:12:58,370 --> 00:12:56,519
still like uh you know I'll help edit

338
00:12:59,990 --> 00:12:58,380
maybe flesh out the idea we'll throw the

339
00:13:01,490 --> 00:13:00,000
ideas back and forth but then really

340
00:13:04,790 --> 00:13:01,500
going into the research I was like oh no

341
00:13:06,889 --> 00:13:04,800
I actually want to be really involved

342
00:13:08,870 --> 00:13:06,899
um right yeah that's really my story it

343
00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:08,880
wasn't I wasn't uh

344
00:13:15,290 --> 00:13:11,760
I wasn't part of that uh I wasn't in the

345
00:13:16,430 --> 00:13:15,300
UFO uh World until I was brought on for

346
00:13:18,769 --> 00:13:16,440
the project

347
00:13:21,050 --> 00:13:18,779
that's so cool man because I hear that

348
00:13:23,389 --> 00:13:21,060
all the time working with you know in

349
00:13:25,490 --> 00:13:23,399
television when it comes to UFOs you

350
00:13:27,470 --> 00:13:25,500
know you have the crew the cameraman you

351
00:13:29,870 --> 00:13:27,480
have the directors and they're not

352
00:13:32,750 --> 00:13:29,880
entrenched in this stuff but it's a job

353
00:13:35,090 --> 00:13:32,760
for them and uh it's a project and then

354
00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:35,100
once they get you know going with it

355
00:13:39,350 --> 00:13:36,959
they're like whoa like this is a whole

356
00:13:41,449 --> 00:13:39,360
world I never knew was out there and now

357
00:13:42,769 --> 00:13:41,459
you know I've got cameramen that I've

358
00:13:45,170 --> 00:13:42,779
worked with in the past reaching out to

359
00:13:47,269 --> 00:13:45,180
me be like dude did you see that UFO in

360
00:13:49,069 --> 00:13:47,279
San Diego or like oh what the hell is

361
00:13:52,129 --> 00:13:49,079
over Scotland this week it's it's pretty

362
00:13:54,110 --> 00:13:52,139
cool like that you know even if you are

363
00:13:56,509 --> 00:13:54,120
coming from an outside perspective uh

364
00:13:59,569 --> 00:13:56,519
this topic desperately needs that too it

365
00:14:03,110 --> 00:13:59,579
needs the new fresh eyes to look at it

366
00:14:04,430 --> 00:14:03,120
um because Tom knows you you get so

367
00:14:05,629 --> 00:14:04,440
involved in this that you expect

368
00:14:07,009 --> 00:14:05,639
everyone

369
00:14:09,829 --> 00:14:07,019
um in the outside world to know who

370
00:14:11,990 --> 00:14:09,839
Kenneth Arnold is or to know where

371
00:14:14,810 --> 00:14:12,000
Roswell is I can't tell you how many

372
00:14:16,610 --> 00:14:14,820
people think roswell's in Nevada or

373
00:14:19,069 --> 00:14:16,620
something like that you know so it's

374
00:14:20,690 --> 00:14:19,079
it's interesting but um yeah Tom yeah

375
00:14:21,889 --> 00:14:20,700
how did you first get interested in your

376
00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:21,899
phone so what brought you into this

377
00:14:26,990 --> 00:14:25,440
world I I mean I I was always interested

378
00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:27,000
as a kid I don't I Can't Tell You Why

379
00:14:31,190 --> 00:14:28,560
honestly um it was something that

380
00:14:33,829 --> 00:14:31,200
gravitated I I as a topic I gravitated

381
00:14:35,509 --> 00:14:33,839
to I mean I had a particular like citing

382
00:14:38,269 --> 00:14:35,519
I would say when I was younger that kind

383
00:14:39,769 --> 00:14:38,279
of like influenced me later on but you

384
00:14:41,090 --> 00:14:39,779
know it wasn't anything crazy it was

385
00:14:44,750 --> 00:14:41,100
just something that you're like whoa

386
00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:44,760
what was that but this this uh under or

387
00:14:48,590 --> 00:14:46,320
this overwhelming feeling rather that

388
00:14:50,090 --> 00:14:48,600
you know they're lying to you and like

389
00:14:52,069 --> 00:14:50,100
you want to figure out why are they

390
00:14:54,769 --> 00:14:52,079
lying to you right

391
00:14:57,050 --> 00:14:54,779
um so with this project specifically you

392
00:14:58,970 --> 00:14:57,060
know like it was really getting to the

393
00:15:00,889 --> 00:14:58,980
history of it and like I I was tired of

394
00:15:03,470 --> 00:15:00,899
talking to people about it and not being

395
00:15:04,970 --> 00:15:03,480
versed in you know in the dates the

396
00:15:08,930 --> 00:15:04,980
names and things like that just pretty

397
00:15:10,850 --> 00:15:08,940
much why I think this was the uh well I

398
00:15:12,829 --> 00:15:10,860
think this this really did happen and

399
00:15:14,269 --> 00:15:12,839
part of bringing John on which was

400
00:15:16,610 --> 00:15:14,279
really really cool and it's really cool

401
00:15:18,290 --> 00:15:16,620
about like the the tandem that we have

402
00:15:19,490 --> 00:15:18,300
you know like I I come in from the lens

403
00:15:22,009 --> 00:15:19,500
like no no something definitely happened

404
00:15:23,930 --> 00:15:22,019
you know and we're gonna figure out how

405
00:15:25,850 --> 00:15:23,940
and why whereas John was like like yeah

406
00:15:27,949 --> 00:15:25,860
I don't know but the more we got into

407
00:15:31,009 --> 00:15:27,959
the research the more we got into the

408
00:15:33,829 --> 00:15:31,019
the documentation that of course it's

409
00:15:36,110 --> 00:15:33,839
researchers previous to us like uh Jan

410
00:15:37,490 --> 00:15:36,120
aldrick you know Wendy Connors

411
00:15:39,350 --> 00:15:37,500
um a bunch of other people that like

412
00:15:41,329 --> 00:15:39,360
really completed historical record the

413
00:15:42,889 --> 00:15:41,339
more we Dove and sunk our teeth into it

414
00:15:44,930 --> 00:15:42,899
so more like oh [\h__\h] no something

415
00:15:46,610 --> 00:15:44,940
happened and and they're clearly lying

416
00:15:48,949 --> 00:15:46,620
about it you know whether it's it's

417
00:15:50,750 --> 00:15:48,959
Little Green Men or whatever you know

418
00:15:52,550 --> 00:15:50,760
that that's Up For Debate right but

419
00:15:54,350 --> 00:15:52,560
something at least in this period of

420
00:15:56,569 --> 00:15:54,360
time happened and they were caught

421
00:15:58,250 --> 00:15:56,579
flat-footed and for me that was very

422
00:15:59,210 --> 00:15:58,260
interesting that government responds to

423
00:16:01,129 --> 00:15:59,220
this

424
00:16:03,650 --> 00:16:01,139
gave more Credence to the theory than

425
00:16:06,170 --> 00:16:03,660
anything else right than any witness

426
00:16:08,329 --> 00:16:06,180
than any anything like that you know

427
00:16:10,030 --> 00:16:08,339
because this has continued on for 75

428
00:16:13,250 --> 00:16:10,040
years you know it hasn't stopped in

429
00:16:16,370 --> 00:16:13,260
47-48 right so but I always found out

430
00:16:17,750 --> 00:16:16,380
that duo between or that that um dualism

431
00:16:19,910 --> 00:16:17,760
with me and John very interesting we're

432
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:19,920
like I'll you know like we'll attack an

433
00:16:22,790 --> 00:16:21,600
idea and then we'll have to really pick

434
00:16:25,730 --> 00:16:22,800
it apart because John is a very

435
00:16:27,530 --> 00:16:25,740
analytical mind you know and for him to

436
00:16:30,350 --> 00:16:27,540
accept something like it's got to make

437
00:16:32,990 --> 00:16:30,360
sense right so like when we approach it

438
00:16:35,810 --> 00:16:33,000
it's it's from two different points of

439
00:16:38,930 --> 00:16:35,820
view converging onto one which is nice

440
00:16:41,629 --> 00:16:38,940
yeah I'll say two I mean first off yeah

441
00:16:43,189 --> 00:16:41,639
I we do have a great tandem in that way

442
00:16:45,470 --> 00:16:43,199
um well Davis The Devil's Advocate our

443
00:16:47,210 --> 00:16:45,480
situa our arguments a lot whether we

444
00:16:49,910 --> 00:16:47,220
agree with them or not I mean I'll say

445
00:16:51,470 --> 00:16:49,920
too the most surprising part of it was

446
00:16:52,910 --> 00:16:51,480
you know I didn't have a strong dog in

447
00:16:55,249 --> 00:16:52,920
the fight I mean me and Tom would talk

448
00:16:56,749 --> 00:16:55,259
about these things but I I was always I

449
00:16:58,490 --> 00:16:56,759
would always cautiously take the

450
00:17:00,110 --> 00:16:58,500
position of there's probably an

451
00:17:02,689 --> 00:17:00,120
explanation for this are probably

452
00:17:04,669 --> 00:17:02,699
someone's lying or the history is

453
00:17:07,730 --> 00:17:04,679
getting skewed or whatever and the

454
00:17:11,390 --> 00:17:07,740
deeper into the research

455
00:17:13,010 --> 00:17:11,400
not only is it obvious that things are

456
00:17:14,809 --> 00:17:13,020
happening like anyone who if I still

457
00:17:18,409 --> 00:17:14,819
have you know even people that came to

458
00:17:20,750 --> 00:17:18,419
Comic-Con uh and were skeptical uh I

459
00:17:23,210 --> 00:17:20,760
would just say listen just do do

460
00:17:25,010 --> 00:17:23,220
research because there's just um there's

461
00:17:27,829 --> 00:17:25,020
too many

462
00:17:30,289 --> 00:17:27,839
um uh what's the word if when there's

463
00:17:32,270 --> 00:17:30,299
there's too much smoke right now we

464
00:17:34,669 --> 00:17:32,280
there's obviously wide range of

465
00:17:36,470 --> 00:17:34,679
disagreement on what these what these

466
00:17:40,970 --> 00:17:36,480
things are what this is what the details

467
00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:40,980
are but the idea that there's something

468
00:17:44,930 --> 00:17:43,200
really really strange going on here and

469
00:17:47,870 --> 00:17:44,940
that the government has lied about and

470
00:17:50,690 --> 00:17:47,880
been able to memory hole uh outside the

471
00:17:52,010 --> 00:17:50,700
mainstream is uh is really quite an

472
00:17:53,390 --> 00:17:52,020
amazing story that might have been more

473
00:17:55,730 --> 00:17:53,400
shocking than anything I was like not

474
00:17:58,010 --> 00:17:55,740
only is this obviously real but no one

475
00:18:00,710 --> 00:17:58,020
knows about this I had no idea and it's

476
00:18:03,230 --> 00:18:00,720
not like the information is necessarily

477
00:18:05,330 --> 00:18:03,240
incredibly difficult to find you just

478
00:18:07,010 --> 00:18:05,340
gotta actually do the work

479
00:18:08,690 --> 00:18:07,020
um but when we start from the mindset of

480
00:18:11,570 --> 00:18:08,700
well this is [\h__\h] to begin with that

481
00:18:13,070 --> 00:18:11,580
that just becomes uh a sticking point

482
00:18:14,870 --> 00:18:13,080
and that's just the filter you view the

483
00:18:17,029 --> 00:18:14,880
world so anything outside that filter

484
00:18:20,750 --> 00:18:17,039
like UFO research is just not going to

485
00:18:22,909 --> 00:18:20,760
enter into your uh Consciousness so um

486
00:18:24,770 --> 00:18:22,919
really it was part of getting over that

487
00:18:27,710 --> 00:18:24,780
um still cautious about plenty of stuff

488
00:18:29,510 --> 00:18:27,720
that me and Tom go back and forth

489
00:18:30,529 --> 00:18:29,520
um as you should be yeah I mean I don't

490
00:18:32,930 --> 00:18:30,539
know who's listening to this podcast who

491
00:18:34,250 --> 00:18:32,940
doesn't believe that UFOs are real but

492
00:18:37,310 --> 00:18:34,260
um

493
00:18:39,470 --> 00:18:37,320
I I'm now a Believer because I don't

494
00:18:42,590 --> 00:18:39,480
think there's any other way

495
00:18:44,210 --> 00:18:42,600
to believe it there's no

496
00:18:45,470 --> 00:18:44,220
you have to believe that UFO is real

497
00:18:47,270 --> 00:18:45,480
once you get into the research it's

498
00:18:48,950 --> 00:18:47,280
almost it's almost irrational I would

499
00:18:50,330 --> 00:18:48,960
say it's irrational at that point after

500
00:18:52,730 --> 00:18:50,340
the research that I've done to believe

501
00:18:54,590 --> 00:18:52,740
otherwise and that's that's really like

502
00:18:56,750 --> 00:18:54,600
a like a cool segue into like like what

503
00:18:58,130 --> 00:18:56,760
we're doing basically like we we really

504
00:19:00,350 --> 00:18:58,140
want people to come away with names

505
00:19:02,450 --> 00:19:00,360
dates events after reading so they're

506
00:19:04,730 --> 00:19:02,460
going to get a general like like like

507
00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:04,740
like history of what happened and

508
00:19:07,909 --> 00:19:06,240
they're able to take that information if

509
00:19:09,230 --> 00:19:07,919
they want to do their research now

510
00:19:10,909 --> 00:19:09,240
they're equipped and that for me was

511
00:19:12,650 --> 00:19:10,919
like the biggest point of this project

512
00:19:15,470 --> 00:19:12,660
was like okay this is not just like

513
00:19:17,150 --> 00:19:15,480
another like like another stupid X5 I

514
00:19:19,070 --> 00:19:17,160
mean doing me wrong I love X-Files but

515
00:19:21,169 --> 00:19:19,080
like it's not something that's just like

516
00:19:23,150 --> 00:19:21,179
rooted in complete fiction people who

517
00:19:25,549 --> 00:19:23,160
read this will have an idea of what

518
00:19:27,590 --> 00:19:25,559
happened and again the names the dates

519
00:19:29,930 --> 00:19:27,600
the uh the the correspondence between

520
00:19:31,730 --> 00:19:29,940
you know certain military officials uh

521
00:19:34,430 --> 00:19:31,740
and again some of the sightings around

522
00:19:36,470 --> 00:19:34,440
military bases like we put all that in

523
00:19:38,210 --> 00:19:36,480
there because like hey that is a story

524
00:19:40,789 --> 00:19:38,220
that is a history but B we want people

525
00:19:43,070 --> 00:19:40,799
to be able to take that and if they want

526
00:19:44,870 --> 00:19:43,080
to inquire or a research even further

527
00:19:46,730 --> 00:19:44,880
they have the tools now they have the

528
00:19:47,810 --> 00:19:46,740
dates they have the names right so this

529
00:19:49,250 --> 00:19:47,820
is a way of

530
00:19:50,810 --> 00:19:49,260
I don't want to use the word educating

531
00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:50,820
that's that's a little too much but like

532
00:19:54,350 --> 00:19:53,039
this is if you know if your curiosity is

533
00:19:55,490 --> 00:19:54,360
Peak like you're just you're equipped

534
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:55,500
now with the tools to take that

535
00:20:00,710 --> 00:19:57,840
Curiosity and expand on it which I think

536
00:20:03,289 --> 00:20:00,720
is really like the the for me you know

537
00:20:06,590 --> 00:20:03,299
the um the Crux of this project it's

538
00:20:09,130 --> 00:20:06,600
it's it's it's it's doing that yeah well

539
00:20:11,750 --> 00:20:09,140
and you've you've personified these

540
00:20:13,190 --> 00:20:11,760
individuals and I think that's what's

541
00:20:15,350 --> 00:20:13,200
most important you know you can read a

542
00:20:17,990 --> 00:20:15,360
UFO book and hear a name or see a date

543
00:20:19,970 --> 00:20:18,000
and you know it's boring it's dry it

544
00:20:22,250 --> 00:20:19,980
doesn't stick with you until you hear

545
00:20:24,230 --> 00:20:22,260
the story behind it and I think you know

546
00:20:25,549 --> 00:20:24,240
giving these people Life Giving Them

547
00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:25,559
character

548
00:20:30,350 --> 00:20:27,840
um giving them motivation is what really

549
00:20:33,950 --> 00:20:30,360
drew me in and some of those names I'm

550
00:20:35,390 --> 00:20:33,960
like damn they dug deep like I I hadn't

551
00:20:37,730 --> 00:20:35,400
even heard of some of these people so

552
00:20:40,250 --> 00:20:37,740
immediately like I put down the comic

553
00:20:44,330 --> 00:20:40,260
and I'd start googling I'm like like yup

554
00:20:47,150 --> 00:20:44,340
yup that was the person yeah so um that

555
00:20:49,070 --> 00:20:47,160
really stuck with me um but but I kind

556
00:20:51,110 --> 00:20:49,080
of want to start here with you guys this

557
00:20:52,970 --> 00:20:51,120
is the first image from the comic we

558
00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:52,980
have a few images I wanted to share with

559
00:20:56,870 --> 00:20:54,960
our YouTube audience here so if you're

560
00:20:59,029 --> 00:20:56,880
just listening to the podcast guys you

561
00:21:00,650 --> 00:20:59,039
can watch this on YouTube as well we've

562
00:21:03,950 --> 00:21:00,660
got some visuals and you can see these

563
00:21:06,350 --> 00:21:03,960
two uh gentlemen's mugs as well

564
00:21:08,330 --> 00:21:06,360
um this is the first image that really

565
00:21:10,789 --> 00:21:08,340
caught my attention at the beginning of

566
00:21:14,270 --> 00:21:10,799
the comic now here we're seeing kind of

567
00:21:17,630 --> 00:21:14,280
um as a Catholic or a Christian I took

568
00:21:19,370 --> 00:21:17,640
this as Adam and Eve but um yeah what

569
00:21:21,710 --> 00:21:19,380
made you guys want to start the comic

570
00:21:24,110 --> 00:21:21,720
with such a powerful and um sort of

571
00:21:25,730 --> 00:21:24,120
cryptic image uh anyone who wants to

572
00:21:28,490 --> 00:21:25,740
take that first

573
00:21:31,310 --> 00:21:28,500
yeah John I I think this this particular

574
00:21:32,870 --> 00:21:31,320
scene was was John's idea and uh at

575
00:21:35,450 --> 00:21:32,880
first I was like I don't know how do we

576
00:21:37,730 --> 00:21:35,460
do that Christian or Catholic element

577
00:21:39,110 --> 00:21:37,740
into it but I mean the more and more you

578
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:39,120
pitched it the more like it did make

579
00:21:45,669 --> 00:21:42,000
sense so I'll let John uh explain the

580
00:21:48,409 --> 00:21:45,679
process behind it yeah I may like

581
00:21:50,090 --> 00:21:48,419
intellectualize it and make it uh a

582
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:50,100
little too much because

583
00:21:55,250 --> 00:21:53,280
um this was just an image that kept

584
00:21:56,990 --> 00:21:55,260
popping up doing the research not the

585
00:21:59,390 --> 00:21:57,000
image the story of Adam and Eve himself

586
00:21:59,990 --> 00:21:59,400
the idea of this

587
00:22:01,610 --> 00:22:00,000
um

588
00:22:03,230 --> 00:22:01,620
you know quote unquote Forbidden

589
00:22:06,529 --> 00:22:03,240
Knowledge

590
00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:06,539
um whether it's

591
00:22:10,850 --> 00:22:09,360
you know so it is I guess symbolic in

592
00:22:13,430 --> 00:22:10,860
that sense I I will say on a more

593
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:13,440
practical level the why I would make the

594
00:22:18,770 --> 00:22:15,360
connection I mean you're just speaking

595
00:22:20,350 --> 00:22:18,780
as a Christian chime as well but also

596
00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:20,360
uh

597
00:22:25,430 --> 00:22:23,520
so it's not in this image but it opens

598
00:22:27,950 --> 00:22:25,440
essentially this is the opening image of

599
00:22:31,010 --> 00:22:27,960
a dream sequence of uh the engineer

600
00:22:33,529 --> 00:22:31,020
Albert uh DeArmond

601
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:33,539
um who was a devout Christian

602
00:22:38,029 --> 00:22:36,000
and came away with certain uh

603
00:22:40,310 --> 00:22:38,039
conclusions about what these UFOs were

604
00:22:43,130 --> 00:22:40,320
which is very interesting uh I found

605
00:22:45,890 --> 00:22:43,140
compelling and um

606
00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:45,900
I yeah I don't

607
00:22:49,250 --> 00:22:47,520
I don't know how to go beyond that I

608
00:22:52,549 --> 00:22:49,260
know I'm I'm already rambling but there

609
00:22:55,549 --> 00:22:52,559
there's no there's something about the

610
00:22:58,130 --> 00:22:55,559
Garden of Eden especially because you

611
00:23:02,270 --> 00:22:58,140
know this is this is such a a military

612
00:23:04,549 --> 00:23:02,280
heavy USA heavy project where that sort

613
00:23:06,350 --> 00:23:04,559
of biblical narrative that's been woven

614
00:23:08,029 --> 00:23:06,360
into

615
00:23:12,890 --> 00:23:08,039
um

616
00:23:16,789 --> 00:23:12,900
it just seemed right

617
00:23:20,570 --> 00:23:16,799
um and obviously there's a lot you can

618
00:23:23,330 --> 00:23:20,580
analyze or Come Away with as to what is

619
00:23:25,970 --> 00:23:23,340
meant by uh you know the fact that I'm

620
00:23:29,510 --> 00:23:25,980
we're making this connection to the fall

621
00:23:31,250 --> 00:23:29,520
of the fall from Eden and uh eating the

622
00:23:33,409 --> 00:23:31,260
forbidden fruit

623
00:23:36,649 --> 00:23:33,419
um you know I have my thoughts about

624
00:23:38,690 --> 00:23:36,659
that but in terms of uh

625
00:23:42,409 --> 00:23:38,700
I I would say in a practical level it's

626
00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:42,419
a reflection of the mental state of the

627
00:23:45,409 --> 00:23:44,880
character at the time

628
00:23:49,310 --> 00:23:45,419
um

629
00:23:51,049 --> 00:23:49,320
yeah this was uh 1948 right this this so

630
00:23:53,570 --> 00:23:51,059
yeah we opened up this green sequence

631
00:23:57,049 --> 00:23:53,580
and direman pretty much you know devout

632
00:23:59,450 --> 00:23:57,059
Catholic uh he um he has his dream

633
00:24:01,610 --> 00:23:59,460
basically of like of Eve eating the

634
00:24:03,049 --> 00:24:01,620
fruit from the you know from the Tree of

635
00:24:04,190 --> 00:24:03,059
knowledge the forbidden fruit so it's

636
00:24:05,930 --> 00:24:04,200
like it's kind of this question like

637
00:24:07,370 --> 00:24:05,940
okay well yeah I can eat it and gain all

638
00:24:09,710 --> 00:24:07,380
this knowledge but then I lose my

639
00:24:13,010 --> 00:24:09,720
innocence right and it's kind of what

640
00:24:14,750 --> 00:24:13,020
the what project sign you know the route

641
00:24:15,950 --> 00:24:14,760
they ended up taking like they they

642
00:24:20,510 --> 00:24:15,960
eventually had to come to a certain

643
00:24:22,610 --> 00:24:20,520
conclusion right but yeah you know you

644
00:24:24,049 --> 00:24:22,620
kind of once you find out you're not the

645
00:24:25,610 --> 00:24:24,059
top of the food chain or there's other

646
00:24:27,649 --> 00:24:25,620
things out there that you shouldn't

647
00:24:28,730 --> 00:24:27,659
really know about you know it's a

648
00:24:29,870 --> 00:24:28,740
different world after that it's a

649
00:24:33,110 --> 00:24:29,880
different lens by which you do

650
00:24:35,270 --> 00:24:33,120
everything so I mean when when John you

651
00:24:37,010 --> 00:24:35,280
know like John pitched this and

652
00:24:38,330 --> 00:24:37,020
um at first like I was hesitant but more

653
00:24:39,649 --> 00:24:38,340
and more I was like you know this makes

654
00:24:42,470 --> 00:24:39,659
perfect sense especially for a character

655
00:24:43,850 --> 00:24:42,480
like direman who um who again was was

656
00:24:47,470 --> 00:24:43,860
very religious

657
00:24:50,210 --> 00:24:47,480
um you know so Sunday mass every Sunday

658
00:24:52,130 --> 00:24:50,220
volunteered at his church yeah you know

659
00:24:53,930 --> 00:24:52,140
so the implications of what this might

660
00:24:55,610 --> 00:24:53,940
have meant to a man like that who's also

661
00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:55,620
an engineer who looks at things that are

662
00:24:59,390 --> 00:24:57,600
very nuts and bolts you know and all of

663
00:25:01,029 --> 00:24:59,400
a sudden you know now is like or not all

664
00:25:03,890 --> 00:25:01,039
of a sudden but like after some time

665
00:25:05,510 --> 00:25:03,900
it's forced to question his place in the

666
00:25:07,250 --> 00:25:05,520
in the not only the world but the

667
00:25:09,049 --> 00:25:07,260
Universe I thought this was like a very

668
00:25:10,430 --> 00:25:09,059
compelling image and this came from

669
00:25:12,529 --> 00:25:10,440
Matthias

670
00:25:13,730 --> 00:25:12,539
um who was who one of the artists that

671
00:25:16,250 --> 00:25:13,740
worked on this project and did the

672
00:25:19,190 --> 00:25:16,260
prologue for us and he's just phenomenal

673
00:25:21,169 --> 00:25:19,200
you know he we laid it out for him and

674
00:25:23,270 --> 00:25:21,179
he just did his own thing and we were

675
00:25:24,549 --> 00:25:23,280
very happy with the results yeah that's

676
00:25:27,230 --> 00:25:24,559
awesome

677
00:25:28,970 --> 00:25:27,240
yeah I'd just say too

678
00:25:30,950 --> 00:25:28,980
um not to spoil it but there is

679
00:25:33,769 --> 00:25:30,960
something because this is like a Flash

680
00:25:35,390 --> 00:25:33,779
Forward before moving back into uh you

681
00:25:38,510 --> 00:25:35,400
know the present day of this context of

682
00:25:42,289 --> 00:25:38,520
the story he Diamond does something very

683
00:25:45,289 --> 00:25:42,299
specific that leads him to this sort of

684
00:25:46,430 --> 00:25:45,299
torturous distraught yeah I stressed I

685
00:25:49,130 --> 00:25:46,440
should say the strawberry is too strong

686
00:25:51,350 --> 00:25:49,140
this distressed state that uh that

687
00:25:53,149 --> 00:25:51,360
starts the series so that's a little

688
00:25:56,269 --> 00:25:53,159
nugget I get and it's not just about

689
00:25:58,010 --> 00:25:56,279
like the conclusion of what they what he

690
00:26:00,470 --> 00:25:58,020
thinks the UFOs are

691
00:26:03,289 --> 00:26:00,480
um highly specific that he does

692
00:26:05,810 --> 00:26:03,299
I love that good tease good tease and

693
00:26:07,610 --> 00:26:05,820
you know well and again like like both

694
00:26:08,870 --> 00:26:07,620
of you have different interpretations of

695
00:26:11,149 --> 00:26:08,880
what this could mean and I think that's

696
00:26:13,730 --> 00:26:11,159
what's beautiful about uh an image like

697
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:13,740
this and you do hear this a lot that the

698
00:26:19,070 --> 00:26:15,600
lens in which you choose to look at the

699
00:26:21,230 --> 00:26:19,080
UFO phenomenon uh is is very important

700
00:26:24,769 --> 00:26:21,240
you know someone religious might think

701
00:26:26,990 --> 00:26:24,779
it's an Angelic experience or demonic uh

702
00:26:29,149 --> 00:26:27,000
while a more science-based person thinks

703
00:26:32,149 --> 00:26:29,159
this might be visitors from another

704
00:26:34,610 --> 00:26:32,159
planet so I I love this idea that you

705
00:26:36,470 --> 00:26:34,620
know as this religious character is

706
00:26:38,210 --> 00:26:36,480
going to take this journey

707
00:26:40,430 --> 00:26:38,220
um how will it affect his faith how will

708
00:26:42,049 --> 00:26:40,440
it affect his belief systems

709
00:26:44,450 --> 00:26:42,059
um I'm sure that's a struggle that he'll

710
00:26:46,490 --> 00:26:44,460
have as the comic goes on especially

711
00:26:48,230 --> 00:26:46,500
with the work that he's doing so that's

712
00:26:50,630 --> 00:26:48,240
what I loved I also love this idea of

713
00:26:52,970 --> 00:26:50,640
like the creation story you know like

714
00:26:55,430 --> 00:26:52,980
this is the beginning of time to many

715
00:26:57,110 --> 00:26:55,440
Christians out there and um you know

716
00:27:00,409 --> 00:26:57,120
what could that mean where where there

717
00:27:02,930 --> 00:27:00,419
are people here before us uh or living

718
00:27:04,370 --> 00:27:02,940
just you know to the left or right of us

719
00:27:05,149 --> 00:27:04,380
the entire time that we didn't know

720
00:27:06,950 --> 00:27:05,159
about

721
00:27:09,230 --> 00:27:06,960
um so yeah yeah you could interpret it

722
00:27:10,909 --> 00:27:09,240
so many ways so that that image really

723
00:27:12,350 --> 00:27:10,919
stuck out to me you said kudos to you

724
00:27:14,269 --> 00:27:12,360
guys and let's give a shout out if you

725
00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:14,279
don't mind uh to the artists I don't

726
00:27:18,830 --> 00:27:16,320
think I even asked you guys that uh who

727
00:27:21,950 --> 00:27:18,840
were the artists on the first issue here

728
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:21,960
so the uh our main artist is Ezekiel

729
00:27:27,350 --> 00:27:24,720
Anastasia who I mean does phenomenal

730
00:27:29,390 --> 00:27:27,360
work like we we're very um especially

731
00:27:31,789 --> 00:27:29,400
when it comes to UFO sightings we don't

732
00:27:33,230 --> 00:27:31,799
want to actually show like big aliens

733
00:27:35,269 --> 00:27:33,240
coming down or should we want to show it

734
00:27:37,610 --> 00:27:35,279
from the perspective of like what these

735
00:27:39,950 --> 00:27:37,620
people saw so we we kind of make it very

736
00:27:41,690 --> 00:27:39,960
ambiguous and you know like I'm I'm

737
00:27:43,250 --> 00:27:41,700
personally very happy with like how we

738
00:27:45,409 --> 00:27:43,260
did Kenneth Arnold you know like how we

739
00:27:47,269 --> 00:27:45,419
led up to that to that sighting

740
00:27:49,130 --> 00:27:47,279
um so it's Ezekiel Anastasia and then

741
00:27:52,669 --> 00:27:49,140
Mateus and I'm going to pronounce his

742
00:27:55,010 --> 00:27:52,679
last name wrong it's like villanemba

743
00:27:56,330 --> 00:27:55,020
um I have to I have to actually ask him

744
00:27:58,730 --> 00:27:56,340
how to pronounce it because I haven't

745
00:28:01,549 --> 00:27:58,740
talked to him face to face so like we're

746
00:28:03,409 --> 00:28:01,559
we're a very small operation we uh me

747
00:28:04,669 --> 00:28:03,419
and John live in New York and the

748
00:28:06,289 --> 00:28:04,679
artists we work with are in South

749
00:28:09,169 --> 00:28:06,299
America that we've been working with for

750
00:28:10,909 --> 00:28:09,179
a while and uh you know it's it's like

751
00:28:13,909 --> 00:28:10,919
that's the team you know that and dairy

752
00:28:16,250 --> 00:28:13,919
like that that's that's the entire team

753
00:28:17,450 --> 00:28:16,260
um we uh whereas Grassroots as you can

754
00:28:20,390 --> 00:28:17,460
get you know

755
00:28:21,590 --> 00:28:20,400
um and uh and we were incredibly blessed

756
00:28:23,269 --> 00:28:21,600
to be working with these artists because

757
00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:23,279
like they just

758
00:28:26,930 --> 00:28:24,720
they come through each and every time

759
00:28:29,149 --> 00:28:26,940
you know and it's uh it's always a

760
00:28:32,090 --> 00:28:29,159
pleasure it's always a pleasure

761
00:28:34,430 --> 00:28:32,100
yeah amazing work um well you mentioned

762
00:28:36,409 --> 00:28:34,440
Kenneth Arnold let's move right that was

763
00:28:39,590 --> 00:28:36,419
the next image that really popped out to

764
00:28:41,690 --> 00:28:39,600
me every ufologist knows this story

765
00:28:45,049 --> 00:28:41,700
um basically the beginning of the Flying

766
00:28:46,909 --> 00:28:45,059
Saucer craze begin with Kenneth Arnold

767
00:28:47,870 --> 00:28:46,919
um so I'd love to get your guys both

768
00:28:50,269 --> 00:28:47,880
your

769
00:28:52,370 --> 00:28:50,279
um I guess initial thoughts on the

770
00:28:54,110 --> 00:28:52,380
Kenneth Arnold sighting and how you

771
00:28:56,810 --> 00:28:54,120
chose to portray it in the comic book

772
00:28:58,669 --> 00:28:56,820
here I thought was pretty interesting in

773
00:29:01,669 --> 00:28:58,679
terms of what the military people

774
00:29:04,250 --> 00:29:01,679
thought about Kenneth Arnold's sighting

775
00:29:05,870 --> 00:29:04,260
um yeah yeah who wants to take that

776
00:29:07,789 --> 00:29:05,880
first Kenneth Arnold let's go there

777
00:29:09,470 --> 00:29:07,799
let's open that can of worms yeah no

778
00:29:10,850 --> 00:29:09,480
Kenneth Arnold was is a very interesting

779
00:29:12,590 --> 00:29:10,860
character and we're going to revisit him

780
00:29:15,350 --> 00:29:12,600
throughout the series because as John

781
00:29:18,830 --> 00:29:15,360
you know likes to say um almost anybody

782
00:29:20,389 --> 00:29:18,840
who who has an experience like this or a

783
00:29:22,430 --> 00:29:20,399
sighting like this it seems like their

784
00:29:24,769 --> 00:29:22,440
life their life just gets worse you know

785
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:24,779
like it never ends well and with Kenneth

786
00:29:30,049 --> 00:29:27,120
in particular he was he's very like

787
00:29:32,149 --> 00:29:30,059
respected self-made businessman who just

788
00:29:34,850 --> 00:29:32,159
had a sighting and you know he didn't

789
00:29:37,789 --> 00:29:34,860
even like report it so to speak he he

790
00:29:40,370 --> 00:29:37,799
mentioned it you know at a on a stop on

791
00:29:41,630 --> 00:29:40,380
the way to um to Cleveland's Oregon

792
00:29:43,850 --> 00:29:41,640
right

793
00:29:46,010 --> 00:29:43,860
um and the word got out and so like when

794
00:29:47,810 --> 00:29:46,020
he came out uh you know he was just

795
00:29:49,310 --> 00:29:47,820
mobbed by the press and he's like look I

796
00:29:51,830 --> 00:29:49,320
don't know what I saw I I personally

797
00:29:54,289 --> 00:29:51,840
think it's a U.S government you know

798
00:29:57,049 --> 00:29:54,299
craft or missiles that they're testing

799
00:29:59,210 --> 00:29:57,059
and this is just what I saw and this is

800
00:30:01,430 --> 00:29:59,220
you know like he he pretty mapped out

801
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:01,440
where he was the description of what he

802
00:30:04,669 --> 00:30:03,120
saw how fast he thought it was going

803
00:30:06,769 --> 00:30:04,679
which at the time was like 1200 miles

804
00:30:09,529 --> 00:30:06,779
per hour and like he even dumbed it down

805
00:30:11,210 --> 00:30:09,539
or not dumpy like 1200 miles was like a

806
00:30:12,889 --> 00:30:11,220
conservative estimate yeah you know per

807
00:30:14,389 --> 00:30:12,899
hour he he thought they were going much

808
00:30:17,210 --> 00:30:14,399
faster and this is someone who's flown

809
00:30:20,570 --> 00:30:17,220
over this uh this particular area Mount

810
00:30:22,669 --> 00:30:20,580
Rainier multiple times right so you know

811
00:30:23,870 --> 00:30:22,679
he's a very interesting character in a

812
00:30:26,810 --> 00:30:23,880
sense where like he didn't want any of

813
00:30:28,970 --> 00:30:26,820
this he didn't want like the the fame

814
00:30:30,169 --> 00:30:28,980
and not just the fame the infamy you

815
00:30:32,570 --> 00:30:30,179
know because like

816
00:30:35,029 --> 00:30:32,580
it was his nickname after Kenny saucers

817
00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:35,039
you know like yeah he was he was not

818
00:30:38,630 --> 00:30:36,720
taking seriously after that and this is

819
00:30:41,870 --> 00:30:38,640
for someone like him you know it also

820
00:30:43,549 --> 00:30:41,880
like uh it like it inspired this

821
00:30:44,930 --> 00:30:43,559
curiosity and he was really determined

822
00:30:47,870 --> 00:30:44,940
to find out what it was it was really

823
00:30:49,370 --> 00:30:47,880
kind of displeased with uh U.S officials

824
00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:49,380
that they weren't doing everything they

825
00:30:53,810 --> 00:30:51,600
can if it wasn't domestic to find out

826
00:30:55,610 --> 00:30:53,820
what it was right so he was he was very

827
00:30:57,470 --> 00:30:55,620
patriotic in that sense where like this

828
00:30:59,630 --> 00:30:57,480
might have been you know either Russian

829
00:31:02,810 --> 00:30:59,640
or German and no one's taking it

830
00:31:04,669 --> 00:31:02,820
seriously why not you know so again very

831
00:31:05,810 --> 00:31:04,679
interesting character almost tragic to a

832
00:31:07,909 --> 00:31:05,820
sense

833
00:31:09,350 --> 00:31:07,919
um I uh he's personally one of my

834
00:31:11,690 --> 00:31:09,360
favorite characters you know just

835
00:31:13,970 --> 00:31:11,700
because again like he he started the

836
00:31:17,210 --> 00:31:13,980
whole UFO craze and the silver disc kind

837
00:31:18,529 --> 00:31:17,220
of uh you know Mythos but interestingly

838
00:31:20,930 --> 00:31:18,539
enough it's not the first silver this

839
00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:20,940
exciting it's just the one that made the

840
00:31:23,889 --> 00:31:22,080
papers

841
00:31:28,010 --> 00:31:23,899
um I know John likes his character too

842
00:31:30,889 --> 00:31:28,020
yeah I I love Canada I mean again I you

843
00:31:32,210 --> 00:31:30,899
know he was coming from outside the UFO

844
00:31:34,630 --> 00:31:32,220
world I mean he was one of the guys I

845
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:34,640
actually did know about and honestly

846
00:31:40,010 --> 00:31:37,679
sadly again that mindset of there's

847
00:31:42,529 --> 00:31:40,020
probably an explanation you know my

848
00:31:43,610 --> 00:31:42,539
initial thoughts my initial reaction to

849
00:31:45,230 --> 00:31:43,620
Kenneth Arnold not knowing anything

850
00:31:47,330 --> 00:31:45,240
about him I'm not doing any research or

851
00:31:49,370 --> 00:31:47,340
whatever was yeah this guy's maybe a

852
00:31:51,110 --> 00:31:49,380
little buffoonish you know

853
00:31:53,529 --> 00:31:51,120
um and it's not true at all I mean it's

854
00:31:58,090 --> 00:31:53,539
anything but like Tom said he was a very

855
00:32:00,409 --> 00:31:58,100
respected businessman he was uh his

856
00:32:02,090 --> 00:32:00,419
reporting of it which like Tom said it's

857
00:32:04,190 --> 00:32:02,100
not really reporting was that a sense of

858
00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:04,200
patriotism like he was scared he was

859
00:32:09,169 --> 00:32:06,720
like what are these things it was almost

860
00:32:10,730 --> 00:32:09,179
like a possible warning he's like I have

861
00:32:12,529 --> 00:32:10,740
to warn people what if I just saw if

862
00:32:14,630 --> 00:32:12,539
this isn't a secret U.S military project

863
00:32:18,049 --> 00:32:14,640
that I witnessed and if it is just tell

864
00:32:20,269 --> 00:32:18,059
me that and I'll and we'll move on

865
00:32:23,570 --> 00:32:20,279
um but yeah in terms of the infamy it

866
00:32:26,269 --> 00:32:23,580
got so bad that you know and first off

867
00:32:27,889 --> 00:32:26,279
Arnold was officially investigated

868
00:32:29,990 --> 00:32:27,899
um the investigators were impressed with

869
00:32:31,430 --> 00:32:30,000
him impressed with his consistency his

870
00:32:34,130 --> 00:32:31,440
demeanor

871
00:32:35,870 --> 00:32:34,140
um there was no sense from their point

872
00:32:37,310 --> 00:32:35,880
of view that he was trying to embellish

873
00:32:39,169 --> 00:32:37,320
or he's doing it for fame it was

874
00:32:41,090 --> 00:32:39,179
actually the opposite

875
00:32:43,250 --> 00:32:41,100
um which is also common among a lot of

876
00:32:44,870 --> 00:32:43,260
these sightings it's not like it's these

877
00:32:47,330 --> 00:32:44,880
people coming out

878
00:32:48,289 --> 00:32:47,340
um they can't wait to tell you like

879
00:32:49,789 --> 00:32:48,299
there are a lot of these people like you

880
00:32:51,289 --> 00:32:49,799
had to get it out of them like I don't

881
00:32:53,450 --> 00:32:51,299
want to talk about this I know I saw

882
00:32:55,310 --> 00:32:53,460
something crazy I know and they're well

883
00:32:58,070 --> 00:32:55,320
aware that

884
00:32:59,870 --> 00:32:58,080
um I you might perceive me it's crazy I

885
00:33:01,490 --> 00:32:59,880
know how this sounds

886
00:33:03,409 --> 00:33:01,500
um but yeah with Kenneth Arnold it got

887
00:33:05,029 --> 00:33:03,419
so bad where he was asked later like if

888
00:33:07,730 --> 00:33:05,039
you saw another sighting would you tell

889
00:33:12,950 --> 00:33:07,740
people and I what was the quote it was

890
00:33:19,070 --> 00:33:15,649
um yeah just gives you a sense of how

891
00:33:21,409 --> 00:33:19,080
how uh intrusive it got and how much it

892
00:33:23,450 --> 00:33:21,419
affected like an anecdote of like just

893
00:33:24,590 --> 00:33:23,460
his character and this this is this is

894
00:33:26,930 --> 00:33:24,600
not covered by this series but this is

895
00:33:29,269 --> 00:33:26,940
later on like he was invited to um a

896
00:33:33,289 --> 00:33:29,279
radio show with Donald Kiko and a bunch

897
00:33:35,090 --> 00:33:33,299
of others on CBS and um he he was

898
00:33:37,190 --> 00:33:35,100
supposed to come there and pretty much

899
00:33:38,509 --> 00:33:37,200
advocate for you know the fact that

900
00:33:40,130 --> 00:33:38,519
these things are real the government's

901
00:33:42,830 --> 00:33:40,140
lying about it and just basically talk

902
00:33:45,049 --> 00:33:42,840
about like possibly his sighting

903
00:33:48,350 --> 00:33:45,059
um but like very straight lace and he

904
00:33:50,690 --> 00:33:48,360
found out that they they they pretty

905
00:33:53,269 --> 00:33:50,700
much had people on the program that were

906
00:33:55,250 --> 00:33:53,279
going to claim that they were from Venus

907
00:33:57,169 --> 00:33:55,260
um they they also didn't give him like

908
00:33:59,810 --> 00:33:57,179
any other rundown of what they're going

909
00:34:02,990 --> 00:33:59,820
to talk about you know like so like he

910
00:34:05,149 --> 00:34:03,000
he felt compelled enough to to actually

911
00:34:06,649 --> 00:34:05,159
send a telegram either the day of I

912
00:34:08,869 --> 00:34:06,659
forget it's a day up or the day before

913
00:34:10,970 --> 00:34:08,879
and the program was set to air pretty

914
00:34:12,649 --> 00:34:10,980
much ripping them apart saying I want no

915
00:34:15,829 --> 00:34:12,659
part of this this is all this is

916
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:15,839
Sensational nonsensical good day you

917
00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:17,760
know and that's just who he was you know

918
00:34:21,050 --> 00:34:19,440
and again that's why he's one of my

919
00:34:24,050 --> 00:34:21,060
favorite characters you know you just

920
00:34:27,050 --> 00:34:24,060
there's not an ounce of of attention

921
00:34:28,730 --> 00:34:27,060
seeking or or or fame grabbing that that

922
00:34:31,609 --> 00:34:28,740
you know you get from like John said

923
00:34:32,930 --> 00:34:31,619
just he he didn't want this so yeah well

924
00:34:35,750 --> 00:34:32,940
even that interview because they

925
00:34:37,129 --> 00:34:35,760
interviewed he was interviewed uh uh was

926
00:34:38,570 --> 00:34:37,139
a few days later what about a different

927
00:34:40,250 --> 00:34:38,580
radio show because it became a story

928
00:34:41,210 --> 00:34:40,260
right that he that he just didn't show

929
00:34:42,770 --> 00:34:41,220
up

930
00:34:44,329 --> 00:34:42,780
um and he said he didn't want he didn't

931
00:34:46,609 --> 00:34:44,339
even want to do that original interview

932
00:34:49,250 --> 00:34:46,619
to begin with yeah he was doing it

933
00:34:50,930 --> 00:34:49,260
because it seemed like these people they

934
00:34:53,149 --> 00:34:50,940
convinced them enough where they're like

935
00:34:54,470 --> 00:34:53,159
no no we want to take you seriously and

936
00:34:56,450 --> 00:34:54,480
he wants to tell his story and he's like

937
00:34:58,450 --> 00:34:56,460
okay I think it's important to do that

938
00:35:00,650 --> 00:34:58,460
in that context

939
00:35:02,450 --> 00:35:00,660
and then when they started giving them a

940
00:35:05,270 --> 00:35:02,460
run around and obviously trying to make

941
00:35:07,670 --> 00:35:05,280
these associations between him and uh

942
00:35:09,530 --> 00:35:07,680
these Sensational stories and people

943
00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:09,540
that are obviously you know either

944
00:35:13,370 --> 00:35:11,520
grifters or not not cases or whatever

945
00:35:15,650 --> 00:35:13,380
and that was where he was like okay I'm

946
00:35:17,810 --> 00:35:15,660
out I can't trust you people

947
00:35:19,630 --> 00:35:17,820
um so again Arnold you just the guy just

948
00:35:23,150 --> 00:35:19,640
couldn't catch a break

949
00:35:26,210 --> 00:35:23,160
which is you know yeah and it's sad

950
00:35:29,030 --> 00:35:26,220
because imagine if that first reporter

951
00:35:31,010 --> 00:35:29,040
you know when he landed and kind of

952
00:35:33,589 --> 00:35:31,020
reported what had happened if that first

953
00:35:35,690 --> 00:35:33,599
reporter hadn't interviewed him like

954
00:35:37,970 --> 00:35:35,700
where would this topic be today I I

955
00:35:39,829 --> 00:35:37,980
can't I don't know would we be having

956
00:35:41,650 --> 00:35:39,839
this conversation right now would I be

957
00:35:44,630 --> 00:35:41,660
spending you know

958
00:35:47,150 --> 00:35:44,640
23 of the 24 hours in a day talking

959
00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:47,160
about UFOs I don't know I don't know um

960
00:35:51,530 --> 00:35:49,200
the whole world would be different in

961
00:35:54,950 --> 00:35:51,540
terms of this topic and this term Flying

962
00:35:56,750 --> 00:35:54,960
Saucer and uh it's crazy to think you

963
00:35:58,310 --> 00:35:56,760
know in an instant it could have all

964
00:36:00,109 --> 00:35:58,320
changed and

965
00:36:02,150 --> 00:36:00,119
um you guys captured that so well I

966
00:36:03,770 --> 00:36:02,160
think with his character in this really

967
00:36:07,849 --> 00:36:03,780
really well done

968
00:36:09,290 --> 00:36:07,859
um the the next uh I guess image that

969
00:36:12,230 --> 00:36:09,300
really caught my attention I'd love to

970
00:36:14,410 --> 00:36:12,240
discuss with you guys was uh this one

971
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:14,420
right here

972
00:36:20,089 --> 00:36:18,000
this is probably my favorite

973
00:36:22,069 --> 00:36:20,099
um two pages in the book I'm not gonna

974
00:36:24,710 --> 00:36:22,079
lie uh for the mere fact that ghost

975
00:36:26,569 --> 00:36:24,720
Rockets are not covered that often in

976
00:36:28,730 --> 00:36:26,579
the literature there's very few books

977
00:36:31,609 --> 00:36:28,740
written about them uh it's a time in

978
00:36:33,710 --> 00:36:31,619
history that many um you know UFO

979
00:36:35,990 --> 00:36:33,720
researchers shy away from those more

980
00:36:38,089 --> 00:36:36,000
Sensational researchers who want to talk

981
00:36:41,930 --> 00:36:38,099
about flying saucers who want to talk

982
00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:41,940
about venusians but here we have actual

983
00:36:47,930 --> 00:36:44,880
reports of these missile-like craft or

984
00:36:49,609 --> 00:36:47,940
Rockets uh being seen in Sweden um and

985
00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:49,619
all over Europe and even in the United

986
00:36:53,089 --> 00:36:50,880
States

987
00:36:55,970 --> 00:36:53,099
um so yeah I guess Tom let's start with

988
00:36:57,710 --> 00:36:55,980
you man um the historical context with

989
00:36:59,630 --> 00:36:57,720
the ghost rockets and why you decided to

990
00:37:01,430 --> 00:36:59,640
cover it in the in the book

991
00:37:02,750 --> 00:37:01,440
well I believe that ghost Rockets are

992
00:37:04,370 --> 00:37:02,760
probably the first

993
00:37:06,650 --> 00:37:04,380
um the first instance that there might

994
00:37:09,589 --> 00:37:06,660
be a novel technology out there that's

995
00:37:11,390 --> 00:37:09,599
being used by Russia right which scared

996
00:37:13,310 --> 00:37:11,400
our Intelligence Officers so basically

997
00:37:15,290 --> 00:37:13,320
Sweden had a bunch of these sightings

998
00:37:17,450 --> 00:37:15,300
where they would

999
00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:17,460
um they would see these Rockets so to

1000
00:37:21,109 --> 00:37:19,440
speak you know like kind of flying over

1001
00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:21,119
and some of them even landed in certain

1002
00:37:25,250 --> 00:37:22,560
places where they kind of they tried to

1003
00:37:28,130 --> 00:37:25,260
excavate what was there and officially

1004
00:37:31,130 --> 00:37:28,140
they found nothing right

1005
00:37:34,370 --> 00:37:31,140
um but the the main scare here was that

1006
00:37:37,190 --> 00:37:34,380
these were these were V2 rockets that

1007
00:37:40,250 --> 00:37:37,200
were controlled by radio signals and uh

1008
00:37:42,290 --> 00:37:40,260
it's for all intents and purposes it

1009
00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:42,300
looked like Russia was gearing up right

1010
00:37:46,790 --> 00:37:44,640
for something right because like in the

1011
00:37:49,849 --> 00:37:46,800
context of History we had you know

1012
00:37:51,470 --> 00:37:49,859
Germany just fell a couple years prior

1013
00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:51,480
um so there were points of control there

1014
00:37:55,069 --> 00:37:53,040
were points of Allied control and points

1015
00:37:56,810 --> 00:37:55,079
of Soviet control in Germany where they

1016
00:37:59,510 --> 00:37:56,820
would pretty much be occupying this land

1017
00:38:01,430 --> 00:37:59,520
and these manufacturing plants right and

1018
00:38:02,870 --> 00:38:01,440
what was really interesting they they

1019
00:38:07,250 --> 00:38:02,880
thought that these Rockets were coming

1020
00:38:08,810 --> 00:38:07,260
from uh soviet-controlled uh are that

1021
00:38:12,230 --> 00:38:08,820
still be controlled like plots of land

1022
00:38:14,329 --> 00:38:12,240
in Germany so these manufacturing planes

1023
00:38:15,950 --> 00:38:14,339
and like they were shut down at the end

1024
00:38:17,690 --> 00:38:15,960
of the war and all of a sudden the

1025
00:38:19,849 --> 00:38:17,700
Allies are seeing them there's activity

1026
00:38:21,530 --> 00:38:19,859
in these plants and now we start like

1027
00:38:23,630 --> 00:38:21,540
hearing about reports of ghost rockets

1028
00:38:25,910 --> 00:38:23,640
and so Sweden thought Russia was either

1029
00:38:27,290 --> 00:38:25,920
testing a novel missile technology or

1030
00:38:28,670 --> 00:38:27,300
you know at the same time trying to

1031
00:38:29,569 --> 00:38:28,680
intimidate them

1032
00:38:32,150 --> 00:38:29,579
um and we thought that was very

1033
00:38:34,190 --> 00:38:32,160
interesting and it was really like you

1034
00:38:35,990 --> 00:38:34,200
know at the end of the war Russia and

1035
00:38:38,690 --> 00:38:36,000
and the US they were not on the best

1036
00:38:40,670 --> 00:38:38,700
terms but they weren't on it wasn't a

1037
00:38:43,550 --> 00:38:40,680
cold war so to speak it was you know we

1038
00:38:45,770 --> 00:38:43,560
just vanquished you know the axis of

1039
00:38:48,410 --> 00:38:45,780
Evil all right and now we're getting on

1040
00:38:51,349 --> 00:38:48,420
with this this new era in

1041
00:38:53,150 --> 00:38:51,359
you know like Global governments and uh

1042
00:38:55,970 --> 00:38:53,160
so when they saw these manufacturing

1043
00:38:57,410 --> 00:38:55,980
plans opened back up and there were

1044
00:38:59,390 --> 00:38:57,420
German scientists now that were being

1045
00:39:01,790 --> 00:38:59,400
shipped over to Russia

1046
00:39:03,650 --> 00:39:01,800
um very quickly you know this alerted

1047
00:39:05,329 --> 00:39:03,660
allies and it's alerted the U.S

1048
00:39:07,069 --> 00:39:05,339
specifically and they're like okay well

1049
00:39:09,290 --> 00:39:07,079
what's going on here why are they doing

1050
00:39:10,910 --> 00:39:09,300
this why are they testing this and now

1051
00:39:13,010 --> 00:39:10,920
do they have V2 rockets that they're

1052
00:39:15,589 --> 00:39:13,020
able basically the first drones right

1053
00:39:18,170 --> 00:39:15,599
like you know do they have this

1054
00:39:19,849 --> 00:39:18,180
um let's launch an investigation and so

1055
00:39:21,890 --> 00:39:19,859
they did what they could with their you

1056
00:39:24,530 --> 00:39:21,900
know their the military contacts in

1057
00:39:26,750 --> 00:39:24,540
Sweden but ghost Rockets themselves like

1058
00:39:28,069 --> 00:39:26,760
ended up ending very Ambiguously you

1059
00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:28,079
know it was determined I think

1060
00:39:33,050 --> 00:39:30,000
ultimately that these were these were

1061
00:39:36,230 --> 00:39:33,060
this was a missile technology like that

1062
00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:36,240
was being utilized by the Soviets using

1063
00:39:39,829 --> 00:39:38,160
German manufacturing plants and using

1064
00:39:42,170 --> 00:39:39,839
German scientists

1065
00:39:44,150 --> 00:39:42,180
but that's as far as they got and when

1066
00:39:48,290 --> 00:39:44,160
these sightings started happening in 47

1067
00:39:50,210 --> 00:39:48,300
on you know U.S uh U.S Coast

1068
00:39:51,950 --> 00:39:50,220
this was where everyone started look

1069
00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:51,960
looking back to like oh well do you

1070
00:39:55,970 --> 00:39:53,760
remember what happened last year in

1071
00:39:57,770 --> 00:39:55,980
Sweden what if that's happening now over

1072
00:39:59,150 --> 00:39:57,780
here what if they found a way to bring

1073
00:40:00,950 --> 00:39:59,160
that over here and they're just they're

1074
00:40:02,690 --> 00:40:00,960
testing to see if you know these things

1075
00:40:04,190 --> 00:40:02,700
can fly that far

1076
00:40:07,190 --> 00:40:04,200
um if they're able to you know control

1077
00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:07,200
them a certain way so this was for us

1078
00:40:12,050 --> 00:40:09,359
the start of the the Soviet hysteria

1079
00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:12,060
when it came to UFOs which was like the

1080
00:40:17,390 --> 00:40:14,880
very big backdrop of our entire series

1081
00:40:19,970 --> 00:40:17,400
yeah yeah and it's brilliant because

1082
00:40:22,250 --> 00:40:19,980
you're looking at what's going on in the

1083
00:40:25,970 --> 00:40:22,260
UFO narrative today when it comes to the

1084
00:40:28,849 --> 00:40:25,980
Pentagon and it we're we're seeing this

1085
00:40:31,370 --> 00:40:28,859
ghost rocket thing mirroring what what

1086
00:40:33,950 --> 00:40:31,380
what what's going on now you have the US

1087
00:40:35,870 --> 00:40:33,960
saying these UFOs are showing up in our

1088
00:40:38,329 --> 00:40:35,880
military training installations over

1089
00:40:39,770 --> 00:40:38,339
nuclear installations and we know

1090
00:40:41,270 --> 00:40:39,780
they're not Russia we know they're not

1091
00:40:42,710 --> 00:40:41,280
China there's no way they could be that

1092
00:40:45,770 --> 00:40:42,720
far Advanced

1093
00:40:48,109 --> 00:40:45,780
um so whose are they and it's it's crazy

1094
00:40:51,010 --> 00:40:48,119
you're seeing like this whole thing play

1095
00:40:55,190 --> 00:40:52,930
yeah

1096
00:40:57,230 --> 00:40:55,200
I feel like you have to know where you

1097
00:40:59,270 --> 00:40:57,240
come from because this is a lot of this

1098
00:41:01,069 --> 00:40:59,280
isn't new you know like a lot of what's

1099
00:41:03,050 --> 00:41:01,079
happening is in all the language they're

1100
00:41:04,310 --> 00:41:03,060
using might be a little different but

1101
00:41:08,990 --> 00:41:04,320
they're essentially saying the same

1102
00:41:12,650 --> 00:41:09,000
thing you know and yeah again like UFOs

1103
00:41:14,510 --> 00:41:12,660
uh you know or yeah UFOs like being

1104
00:41:16,970 --> 00:41:14,520
cited over military installations over

1105
00:41:18,710 --> 00:41:16,980
you know like very sensitive areas uh

1106
00:41:21,349 --> 00:41:18,720
like White Sands where they were testing

1107
00:41:23,630 --> 00:41:21,359
V2 rocket missiles you know it happened

1108
00:41:28,010 --> 00:41:23,640
back then in 47 so this is not a new

1109
00:41:30,410 --> 00:41:28,020
occurrence that my my opinion is that it

1110
00:41:32,870 --> 00:41:30,420
it's even less contaminated back then

1111
00:41:35,750 --> 00:41:32,880
because back then it was very clear that

1112
00:41:37,130 --> 00:41:35,760
this couldn't have been a new drone or a

1113
00:41:38,510 --> 00:41:37,140
new piece of technology or something

1114
00:41:40,310 --> 00:41:38,520
like that it was very clear what the

1115
00:41:43,069 --> 00:41:40,320
capabilities were

1116
00:41:46,370 --> 00:41:43,079
um you know technologically in 47 and 48

1117
00:41:47,930 --> 00:41:46,380
right whereas now it's like it's it's no

1118
00:41:50,030 --> 00:41:47,940
what if they invented something new

1119
00:41:51,770 --> 00:41:50,040
right but I'm sure they had the same

1120
00:41:53,690 --> 00:41:51,780
feelings back then and I know this is

1121
00:41:54,349 --> 00:41:53,700
also one of John's favorite

1122
00:41:57,470 --> 00:41:54,359
um

1123
00:41:59,810 --> 00:41:57,480
uh pieces of History so I'll let him uh

1124
00:42:01,849 --> 00:41:59,820
yeah get cracked at it yeah I mean in

1125
00:42:05,329 --> 00:42:01,859
terms of the ghost right so like we have

1126
00:42:08,329 --> 00:42:05,339
the flying the flying saucers for

1127
00:42:09,770 --> 00:42:08,339
for the discs but for ghost Rockets it

1128
00:42:11,510 --> 00:42:09,780
was cigar shape that's what you would

1129
00:42:12,650 --> 00:42:11,520
see over and over these cigar shaped

1130
00:42:14,329 --> 00:42:12,660
objects

1131
00:42:16,730 --> 00:42:14,339
um you know and if you do believe the

1132
00:42:18,829 --> 00:42:16,740
research and the and you know that that

1133
00:42:19,490 --> 00:42:18,839
came back from that and the journalists

1134
00:42:21,109 --> 00:42:19,500
um

1135
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:21,119
and the book's talking about the ghost

1136
00:42:25,550 --> 00:42:22,800
Rockets what I found

1137
00:42:26,930 --> 00:42:25,560
the craziest part because like you said

1138
00:42:30,109 --> 00:42:26,940
in terms of it not capturing like the

1139
00:42:32,210 --> 00:42:30,119
imagination like UFOs did I mean that

1140
00:42:34,250 --> 00:42:32,220
makes sense right because they're

1141
00:42:36,829 --> 00:42:34,260
Rockets they look like rockets so it's

1142
00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:36,839
easy for our brains to reconcile like

1143
00:42:40,870 --> 00:42:38,400
okay they could have been weapons and

1144
00:42:44,630 --> 00:42:40,880
maybe the capabilities that supposed

1145
00:42:46,970 --> 00:42:44,640
Witnesses saw you know it wasn't as

1146
00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:46,980
advanced as they seemed to think right

1147
00:42:50,690 --> 00:42:49,200
things like that as opposed to a disc

1148
00:42:52,310 --> 00:42:50,700
where you're like well we've never seen

1149
00:42:54,589 --> 00:42:52,320
anything like that before no one's ever

1150
00:42:55,910 --> 00:42:54,599
built something like that it actually as

1151
00:42:58,609 --> 00:42:55,920
far as we know isn't possible

1152
00:43:00,530 --> 00:42:58,619
technologically at the time right

1153
00:43:02,809 --> 00:43:00,540
um you know but with the ghost Rockets

1154
00:43:04,430 --> 00:43:02,819
it's just you had these stories of Not

1155
00:43:05,930 --> 00:43:04,440
only would there be multiple Witnesses

1156
00:43:07,970 --> 00:43:05,940
from multiple Vantage points seeing

1157
00:43:11,809 --> 00:43:07,980
these Rockets hit

1158
00:43:14,750 --> 00:43:11,819
like crash into lakes you'd see the

1159
00:43:16,609 --> 00:43:14,760
water blow up like 15 foot water columns

1160
00:43:18,770 --> 00:43:16,619
up to 20 feet according to the research

1161
00:43:21,530 --> 00:43:18,780
and then people would go investigate

1162
00:43:23,569 --> 00:43:21,540
they would the military would come in

1163
00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:23,579
um and they would try to find debris and

1164
00:43:28,609 --> 00:43:26,400
they wouldn't find a thing they wouldn't

1165
00:43:31,309 --> 00:43:28,619
find a piece of shrapnel a piece of

1166
00:43:34,010 --> 00:43:31,319
metal you would the the lake would be

1167
00:43:36,650 --> 00:43:34,020
ripped up from the root there'd be dirt

1168
00:43:38,150 --> 00:43:36,660
everywhere water everywhere and they

1169
00:43:41,089 --> 00:43:38,160
compared it in the research they would

1170
00:43:42,890 --> 00:43:41,099
compare when like um V2 Rockets fell

1171
00:43:45,770 --> 00:43:42,900
from uh

1172
00:43:47,630 --> 00:43:45,780
uh Germany like fell over uh like Sweden

1173
00:43:49,370 --> 00:43:47,640
during the war and there'd just be it

1174
00:43:52,190 --> 00:43:49,380
would break up or it would hit it would

1175
00:43:54,470 --> 00:43:52,200
hit a an empty area like a field and

1176
00:43:56,390 --> 00:43:54,480
they would just be debris everywhere but

1177
00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:56,400
when we came to these ghost Rockets they

1178
00:43:59,930 --> 00:43:58,079
couldn't find anything if you believe

1179
00:44:03,190 --> 00:43:59,940
the research

1180
00:44:06,650 --> 00:44:03,200
um so that to me was the most uh

1181
00:44:10,250 --> 00:44:06,660
among the most compelling uh piece of

1182
00:44:12,370 --> 00:44:10,260
History across this uh entire time uh

1183
00:44:14,690 --> 00:44:12,380
within beginning of a UFO phenomenon

1184
00:44:16,069 --> 00:44:14,700
Arnold sorry when Kenneth Arnold

1185
00:44:18,050 --> 00:44:16,079
happened you know this is where they

1186
00:44:20,510 --> 00:44:18,060
went back to they went back to these

1187
00:44:22,490 --> 00:44:20,520
files from 46 and like let's let's open

1188
00:44:24,589 --> 00:44:22,500
them back up and let's look into it you

1189
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:24,599
know so we just think it's a very

1190
00:44:27,950 --> 00:44:26,640
pivotal point you know in terms of how

1191
00:44:30,050 --> 00:44:27,960
Intelligence Officers are starting to

1192
00:44:32,150 --> 00:44:30,060
view this thing which again was with the

1193
00:44:34,130 --> 00:44:32,160
tint of Russian Rhett yeah I mean that

1194
00:44:35,690 --> 00:44:34,140
was the official conclusion right behind

1195
00:44:37,550 --> 00:44:35,700
for the military behind closed doors

1196
00:44:41,030 --> 00:44:37,560
right you know possibly radio-controlled

1197
00:44:44,270 --> 00:44:41,040
missiles yeah from Russia not meant to

1198
00:44:45,410 --> 00:44:44,280
attack right they weren't and from with

1199
00:44:46,970 --> 00:44:45,420
their understanding if Russia is doing

1200
00:44:48,890 --> 00:44:46,980
this it's not this they get a war it's

1201
00:44:52,190 --> 00:44:48,900
to show it's basically to scare them

1202
00:44:54,470 --> 00:44:52,200
intimidation yeah intimidate using new

1203
00:44:56,569 --> 00:44:54,480
military capabilities

1204
00:44:58,490 --> 00:44:56,579
um but it really doesn't care what's

1205
00:45:02,089 --> 00:44:58,500
happening today too

1206
00:45:04,190 --> 00:45:02,099
right and I get you know today too I

1207
00:45:05,510 --> 00:45:04,200
think what we get like all these

1208
00:45:08,089 --> 00:45:05,520
sightings and these reports of things

1209
00:45:11,410 --> 00:45:08,099
that clearly aren't possible you know

1210
00:45:13,550 --> 00:45:11,420
it's easy but it's easy for us to

1211
00:45:15,230 --> 00:45:13,560
rationalize like well maybe the military

1212
00:45:16,370 --> 00:45:15,240
is capable of doing these things and we

1213
00:45:18,589 --> 00:45:16,380
don't know

1214
00:45:21,309 --> 00:45:18,599
um but at least looking in the 40s where

1215
00:45:24,290 --> 00:45:21,319
it's like like Tom just said now we know

1216
00:45:25,550 --> 00:45:24,300
for a fact that technology wasn't

1217
00:45:27,710 --> 00:45:25,560
possible then

1218
00:45:29,750 --> 00:45:27,720
so like you said that seems to be

1219
00:45:31,550 --> 00:45:29,760
repeating again and it's easy for us to

1220
00:45:34,370 --> 00:45:31,560
say like well maybe we just don't know

1221
00:45:36,950 --> 00:45:34,380
that they can do x y and z

1222
00:45:40,210 --> 00:45:36,960
um right but you know obviously we we

1223
00:45:42,130 --> 00:45:40,220
have a specific opinions about that

1224
00:45:45,050 --> 00:45:42,140
as he should

1225
00:45:47,930 --> 00:45:45,060
you're the Mulder and Scully of this

1226
00:45:51,470 --> 00:45:47,940
commentary I'm sure your roles switch

1227
00:45:53,630 --> 00:45:51,480
every now and again too but um well all

1228
00:45:55,250 --> 00:45:53,640
right military huge part of the comic

1229
00:45:58,150 --> 00:45:55,260
obviously

1230
00:46:01,490 --> 00:45:58,160
um this final image I want to show

1231
00:46:03,950 --> 00:46:01,500
really really stuck with me because

1232
00:46:06,050 --> 00:46:03,960
look you ask any military person why

1233
00:46:07,069 --> 00:46:06,060
they didn't report a UFO when they saw

1234
00:46:08,930 --> 00:46:07,079
it

1235
00:46:11,690 --> 00:46:08,940
um not just stigma and ridicule but

1236
00:46:15,530 --> 00:46:11,700
these guys were sat down and like

1237
00:46:17,990 --> 00:46:15,540
interrogated ferociously I mean I I've

1238
00:46:20,690 --> 00:46:18,000
written in the past and interviewed many

1239
00:46:23,150 --> 00:46:20,700
of the witnesses of the 1980 rendersham

1240
00:46:26,089 --> 00:46:23,160
Forest UFO incident over 60 military

1241
00:46:27,890 --> 00:46:26,099
personnel witnessed a UFO land in

1242
00:46:30,109 --> 00:46:27,900
Suffolk England

1243
00:46:32,750 --> 00:46:30,119
um and take back off and what happened

1244
00:46:34,490 --> 00:46:32,760
to these dudes and women I should say as

1245
00:46:36,050 --> 00:46:34,500
well there were military uh police

1246
00:46:39,109 --> 00:46:36,060
officers as well

1247
00:46:42,530 --> 00:46:39,119
um who saw this they were sat down and

1248
00:46:44,030 --> 00:46:42,540
deprived of sleep deprived of food

1249
00:46:46,490 --> 00:46:44,040
um pumped full of

1250
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:46,500
um you know truth serum as they called

1251
00:46:50,569 --> 00:46:48,720
it back then to figure out what the hell

1252
00:46:53,089 --> 00:46:50,579
these military people saw land in this

1253
00:46:56,329 --> 00:46:53,099
Forest between two joint military bases

1254
00:46:58,849 --> 00:46:56,339
and they were treated horribly by the

1255
00:47:00,950 --> 00:46:58,859
people you know that they respected the

1256
00:47:04,730 --> 00:47:00,960
people that they trusted with their

1257
00:47:06,770 --> 00:47:04,740
lives they're superiors and this image

1258
00:47:08,870 --> 00:47:06,780
just really stuck with me you're seeing

1259
00:47:11,089 --> 00:47:08,880
kind of the the

1260
00:47:12,470 --> 00:47:11,099
um the lengths in which they would go to

1261
00:47:14,329 --> 00:47:12,480
try to figure out what the hell these

1262
00:47:16,250 --> 00:47:14,339
guys saw out there

1263
00:47:20,230 --> 00:47:16,260
um so yeah who wants to take this one

1264
00:47:22,849 --> 00:47:20,240
what what are these images excuse me

1265
00:47:26,990 --> 00:47:22,859
there's a bit of history with this uh

1266
00:47:30,470 --> 00:47:27,000
excuse me so this was uh this is based

1267
00:47:32,930 --> 00:47:30,480
on uh Armstrong's report right so this

1268
00:47:35,150 --> 00:47:32,940
is like as far as we'll go in terms of

1269
00:47:36,950 --> 00:47:35,160
stretching like you know what happened

1270
00:47:40,190 --> 00:47:36,960
behind closed doors so this scene

1271
00:47:41,450 --> 00:47:40,200
essentially is based on uh Armstrong's

1272
00:47:44,630 --> 00:47:41,460
interrogation with the intelligence

1273
00:47:47,870 --> 00:47:44,640
officer who saw you know five or six

1274
00:47:50,690 --> 00:47:47,880
Chrome metal discs uh and was

1275
00:47:52,970 --> 00:47:50,700
interrogated so the information we got

1276
00:47:55,250 --> 00:47:52,980
right was that the intelligence officer

1277
00:47:58,130 --> 00:47:55,260
at the time was shulgin

1278
00:48:00,589 --> 00:47:58,140
from the Pentagon he basically was

1279
00:48:02,089 --> 00:48:00,599
annoyed that you know he Kenneth Arnold

1280
00:48:04,490 --> 00:48:02,099
happens now all of a sudden people are

1281
00:48:06,650 --> 00:48:04,500
you know giving sightings left and right

1282
00:48:08,930 --> 00:48:06,660
and this is all before July 4th it's a

1283
00:48:10,670 --> 00:48:08,940
social contagion at that point in their

1284
00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:10,680
minds like okay this one guy saw

1285
00:48:12,890 --> 00:48:11,760
something that everyone else was

1286
00:48:13,910 --> 00:48:12,900
repeating it they want to get a

1287
00:48:17,510 --> 00:48:13,920
newspaper

1288
00:48:20,390 --> 00:48:17,520
etc etc so he came down and he and you

1289
00:48:22,309 --> 00:48:20,400
know interrogated uh Armstrong about his

1290
00:48:26,030 --> 00:48:22,319
sighting and the notes that we got were

1291
00:48:29,690 --> 00:48:26,040
that Armstrong did not falter and stuck

1292
00:48:32,089 --> 00:48:29,700
to his his guns basically uh even though

1293
00:48:34,010 --> 00:48:32,099
you know like he was thoroughly like

1294
00:48:36,650 --> 00:48:34,020
intimidated and interrogated and whatnot

1295
00:48:39,290 --> 00:48:36,660
so the the details of what happened in

1296
00:48:41,089 --> 00:48:39,300
that interrogation we don't know right

1297
00:48:42,589 --> 00:48:41,099
that's not disclosed we don't know

1298
00:48:45,770 --> 00:48:42,599
really what happened so we took a little

1299
00:48:48,109 --> 00:48:45,780
liberty it being a comic book and trying

1300
00:48:49,790 --> 00:48:48,119
to make it visually appealing and also

1301
00:48:51,410 --> 00:48:49,800
like

1302
00:48:54,349 --> 00:48:51,420
um it's just still trying to keep it in

1303
00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:54,359
the context of the story so we don't

1304
00:48:58,069 --> 00:48:56,640
know if this actually if like you know

1305
00:49:00,589 --> 00:48:58,079
he was pumped to look at the truth serum

1306
00:49:02,390 --> 00:49:00,599
or how harsh interrogation was we do

1307
00:49:04,910 --> 00:49:02,400
know that he did stick to his sighting

1308
00:49:07,010 --> 00:49:04,920
he did stick to his guns and you know

1309
00:49:08,750 --> 00:49:07,020
Shogun was actually

1310
00:49:11,510 --> 00:49:08,760
thoroughly annoyed that he had to do

1311
00:49:12,710 --> 00:49:11,520
this and and and be face to face guy he

1312
00:49:14,270 --> 00:49:12,720
was basically there to set him straight

1313
00:49:16,250 --> 00:49:14,280
and say like you didn't see this you

1314
00:49:17,809 --> 00:49:16,260
know this is a social contagion why are

1315
00:49:20,150 --> 00:49:17,819
Military Officers now reporting this

1316
00:49:22,370 --> 00:49:20,160
right that we can't have this go on so

1317
00:49:24,950 --> 00:49:22,380
we we put our own little spin on it and

1318
00:49:26,930 --> 00:49:24,960
this is as far as we will go with like

1319
00:49:29,030 --> 00:49:26,940
stretching what goes on behind you know

1320
00:49:31,010 --> 00:49:29,040
closed doors and me and John a little

1321
00:49:33,890 --> 00:49:31,020
back and forth because John uh

1322
00:49:34,809 --> 00:49:33,900
originally didn't want to go this far in

1323
00:49:38,690 --> 00:49:34,819
terms of

1324
00:49:40,730 --> 00:49:38,700
uh you know of how how thoroughly he was

1325
00:49:43,190 --> 00:49:40,740
investigated right and I was like no

1326
00:49:44,870 --> 00:49:43,200
John it's a comic book we have to you

1327
00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:44,880
know we have to draw people in somehow

1328
00:49:49,250 --> 00:49:47,040
it's also be entertaining but near the

1329
00:49:51,230 --> 00:49:49,260
more I look at it the more I'm like I

1330
00:49:54,349 --> 00:49:51,240
see where John is coming from so I I

1331
00:49:56,690 --> 00:49:54,359
think we got we had a nice balance of

1332
00:49:58,609 --> 00:49:56,700
um what happened and you know what could

1333
00:50:00,410 --> 00:49:58,619
have happened in this scene it's also

1334
00:50:01,910 --> 00:50:00,420
just a very engaging scene like alone if

1335
00:50:03,829 --> 00:50:01,920
you take away the historical context and

1336
00:50:05,210 --> 00:50:03,839
all that stuff it's my favorite scene in

1337
00:50:07,550 --> 00:50:05,220
the whole book

1338
00:50:09,950 --> 00:50:07,560
um it's just a very visually visceral

1339
00:50:12,710 --> 00:50:09,960
and that that's what we wanted

1340
00:50:17,450 --> 00:50:12,720
um and I'll I'll let John you know give

1341
00:50:20,150 --> 00:50:17,460
us two cents yeah so I I'll just say um

1342
00:50:21,950 --> 00:50:20,160
I mean it is it does look awesome

1343
00:50:24,710 --> 00:50:21,960
um and

1344
00:50:27,890 --> 00:50:24,720
you know what start what did turn me in

1345
00:50:30,170 --> 00:50:27,900
terms of the research you know this is a

1346
00:50:33,290 --> 00:50:30,180
manifestation of like really the

1347
00:50:36,190 --> 00:50:33,300
paranoia and fear that really did start

1348
00:50:40,250 --> 00:50:36,200
to grip the military with this stuff and

1349
00:50:42,650 --> 00:50:40,260
the idea of them also uh another theory

1350
00:50:45,109 --> 00:50:42,660
that I feel like is barely talked about

1351
00:50:46,550 --> 00:50:45,119
um is you know in terms of the reports

1352
00:50:48,650 --> 00:50:46,560
themselves

1353
00:50:51,589 --> 00:50:48,660
um it wasn't even necessarily that uh

1354
00:50:54,349 --> 00:50:51,599
they thought like Witnesses uh were

1355
00:50:56,630 --> 00:50:54,359
seeing things also there was a there was

1356
00:50:59,690 --> 00:50:56,640
a theory of of Russian disinformation

1357
00:51:01,849 --> 00:50:59,700
agents operating in the U.S

1358
00:51:03,770 --> 00:51:01,859
um that's part of the series like are

1359
00:51:05,510 --> 00:51:03,780
they planting these stories which is

1360
00:51:07,130 --> 00:51:05,520
also starting a social contagion and

1361
00:51:08,690 --> 00:51:07,140
then everyone starts to see things that

1362
00:51:10,490 --> 00:51:08,700
actually aren't there

1363
00:51:12,170 --> 00:51:10,500
um so that was actually real too and

1364
00:51:15,170 --> 00:51:12,180
that's really what hooked me where I'm

1365
00:51:16,849 --> 00:51:15,180
like okay then I can buy this we're like

1366
00:51:17,450 --> 00:51:16,859
this is actually

1367
00:51:20,450 --> 00:51:17,460
um

1368
00:51:22,549 --> 00:51:20,460
uh you know the this is something you

1369
00:51:24,230 --> 00:51:22,559
can imagine actually happening

1370
00:51:26,329 --> 00:51:24,240
um but for sure this is a bit of a

1371
00:51:27,650 --> 00:51:26,339
stretch I mean at the end of the day we

1372
00:51:29,329 --> 00:51:27,660
never know what these people talk about

1373
00:51:31,609 --> 00:51:29,339
behind closed doors when it comes to any

1374
00:51:32,630 --> 00:51:31,619
uh historical story for the most part

1375
00:51:34,069 --> 00:51:32,640
um unless you're getting it from a

1376
00:51:37,549 --> 00:51:34,079
memoir and then you have to take the

1377
00:51:39,950 --> 00:51:37,559
person's word for it so we you know we

1378
00:51:43,370 --> 00:51:39,960
surround it as fact-based as possible

1379
00:51:44,750 --> 00:51:43,380
with the drama that we have to create

1380
00:51:47,270 --> 00:51:44,760
um but of course we want to keep that

1381
00:51:50,329 --> 00:51:47,280
within um uh

1382
00:51:52,670 --> 00:51:50,339
within reason of what could or couldn't

1383
00:51:55,970 --> 00:51:52,680
actually happen yeah and the sighting is

1384
00:51:57,290 --> 00:51:55,980
real the the actual entity yeah he was

1385
00:51:59,150 --> 00:51:57,300
actually interrogated and all everything

1386
00:52:02,349 --> 00:51:59,160
he describes is and again this is

1387
00:52:04,970 --> 00:52:02,359
something we uh on this report totally

1388
00:52:06,950 --> 00:52:04,980
hardcore on me and Tom is uh

1389
00:52:09,230 --> 00:52:06,960
descriptions of all the sightings I mean

1390
00:52:12,230 --> 00:52:09,240
don't embellish them whatsoever because

1391
00:52:13,430 --> 00:52:12,240
I mean you don't have to yeah you know

1392
00:52:15,230 --> 00:52:13,440
um anyone that knows even the Kenneth

1393
00:52:17,569 --> 00:52:15,240
Arnold sighting casually knows like how

1394
00:52:19,849 --> 00:52:17,579
much are you gonna embellish

1395
00:52:22,309 --> 00:52:19,859
um yeah some of these official reports

1396
00:52:25,010 --> 00:52:22,319
you know they read his sci-fi novels

1397
00:52:28,849 --> 00:52:25,020
they truly do I remember my my first

1398
00:52:33,309 --> 00:52:28,859
foia request that I got uh sent back to

1399
00:52:37,010 --> 00:52:33,319
me was on the Tehran UFO incident uh of

1400
00:52:38,870 --> 00:52:37,020
1976. and uh crazy oh my God reads like

1401
00:52:41,569 --> 00:52:38,880
a Sci-Fi novel and these are official

1402
00:52:43,670 --> 00:52:41,579
Dia documents it's crazy

1403
00:52:46,549 --> 00:52:43,680
um is it sci-fi it's a true story like

1404
00:52:48,890 --> 00:52:46,559
you know that the wrong one was when I

1405
00:52:51,230 --> 00:52:48,900
first major UFO incidents I I learned

1406
00:52:53,270 --> 00:52:51,240
about where I was like holy crap this is

1407
00:52:56,390 --> 00:52:53,280
uh yeah yeah it's Stranger Than Fiction

1408
00:52:57,230 --> 00:52:56,400
it's too crazy to not be true like you

1409
00:53:03,290 --> 00:52:57,240
know

1410
00:53:05,390 --> 00:53:03,300
this scene sort of embodies is this idea

1411
00:53:08,030 --> 00:53:05,400
of that paranoia at the time and the

1412
00:53:12,290 --> 00:53:08,040
lengths in which we would go even on our

1413
00:53:14,410 --> 00:53:12,300
own soldiers or uh Pilots uh to tell us

1414
00:53:17,750 --> 00:53:14,420
what they saw or if they were working

1415
00:53:20,690 --> 00:53:17,760
for Russia I mean we know for a fact in

1416
00:53:24,230 --> 00:53:20,700
the 80s at least like Russia was sending

1417
00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:24,240
people to UFO conferences this isn't

1418
00:53:28,309 --> 00:53:26,640
like some conspiracy theory like we know

1419
00:53:31,010 --> 00:53:28,319
for a fact now they were planting people

1420
00:53:33,950 --> 00:53:31,020
there because these UFO conferences were

1421
00:53:36,170 --> 00:53:33,960
a place where maybe a military person

1422
00:53:39,109 --> 00:53:36,180
would come and be like hey this highly

1423
00:53:41,569 --> 00:53:39,119
Advanced uh aircraft was seen so many

1424
00:53:43,370 --> 00:53:41,579
people saw it so of course like Russians

1425
00:53:45,290 --> 00:53:43,380
are going to want to know oh what what's

1426
00:53:47,150 --> 00:53:45,300
being seen over the Skies over there and

1427
00:53:48,589 --> 00:53:47,160
is it ours or is it something we should

1428
00:53:51,530 --> 00:53:48,599
worry about

1429
00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:51,540
um yeah there is uh history and

1430
00:53:55,250 --> 00:53:53,760
documentation of such things so yeah

1431
00:53:57,170 --> 00:53:55,260
yeah I thought it was really cool that

1432
00:53:59,630 --> 00:53:57,180
you guys covered this for sure and yeah

1433
00:54:02,329 --> 00:53:59,640
I just kept bringing me back to the

1434
00:54:06,049 --> 00:54:02,339
rendersham case where many officers

1435
00:54:08,210 --> 00:54:06,059
again allegedly were pumped full of this

1436
00:54:10,970 --> 00:54:08,220
serum to tell the truth about what

1437
00:54:13,190 --> 00:54:10,980
they'd seen or or whatnot so yeah well

1438
00:54:15,410 --> 00:54:13,200
done well done on that I love it I'd

1439
00:54:17,870 --> 00:54:15,420
love to see this in color for sure oh

1440
00:54:19,370 --> 00:54:17,880
man color is great we actually have this

1441
00:54:21,770 --> 00:54:19,380
seeming color but again black and white

1442
00:54:23,450 --> 00:54:21,780
seems to work so well that like it does

1443
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:23,460
we're gonna have two different versions

1444
00:54:28,190 --> 00:54:26,160
because I mean I didn't think black and

1445
00:54:30,109 --> 00:54:28,200
white was gonna work this well it just

1446
00:54:32,630 --> 00:54:30,119
it lends itself to the time period too

1447
00:54:34,370 --> 00:54:32,640
and it was yeah I was gonna say

1448
00:54:35,870 --> 00:54:34,380
yeah like it just goes to show you how

1449
00:54:37,670 --> 00:54:35,880
seriously they take this how seriously

1450
00:54:39,170 --> 00:54:37,680
our government took this and you know

1451
00:54:40,790 --> 00:54:39,180
our whole project is about the

1452
00:54:43,609 --> 00:54:40,800
government's first investigation into

1453
00:54:46,730 --> 00:54:43,619
the UFO phenomenon project sign right

1454
00:54:50,210 --> 00:54:46,740
follows direman and ludding and the the

1455
00:54:52,190 --> 00:54:50,220
takeaway from this you know even McCoy

1456
00:54:54,410 --> 00:54:52,200
who is a the general Commander uh well

1457
00:54:56,210 --> 00:54:54,420
no he that was actually 20. like he he

1458
00:54:58,010 --> 00:54:56,220
pretty much was involved in Project sign

1459
00:55:00,290 --> 00:54:58,020
at the helm of it

1460
00:55:03,470 --> 00:55:00,300
he even said we threw everything we

1461
00:55:05,569 --> 00:55:03,480
could at it this was at least from

1462
00:55:08,230 --> 00:55:05,579
what's been Declassified not just the

1463
00:55:10,670 --> 00:55:08,240
first but the most comprehensive

1464
00:55:12,589 --> 00:55:10,680
investigation with the most talented

1465
00:55:15,170 --> 00:55:12,599
engineers and Intelligence Officers we

1466
00:55:16,849 --> 00:55:15,180
had at the time and I think that's like

1467
00:55:18,589 --> 00:55:16,859
that that is so compelling and so

1468
00:55:20,030 --> 00:55:18,599
interesting and it's wild that more

1469
00:55:21,710 --> 00:55:20,040
people don't know about this because we

1470
00:55:23,870 --> 00:55:21,720
haven't had something since Blue Book

1471
00:55:25,370 --> 00:55:23,880
was nothing compared I mean blue book

1472
00:55:27,170 --> 00:55:25,380
was its own thing but like compared to

1473
00:55:29,089 --> 00:55:27,180
project sign like I personally don't

1474
00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:29,099
think it holds a candle you know and

1475
00:55:32,630 --> 00:55:30,240
like you'll have these Intelligence

1476
00:55:34,430 --> 00:55:32,640
Officers say again and again we threw

1477
00:55:36,710 --> 00:55:34,440
everything we had in the kitchen sink at

1478
00:55:38,750 --> 00:55:36,720
it to really really find out what was

1479
00:55:41,210 --> 00:55:38,760
going on and that's how seriously they

1480
00:55:42,770 --> 00:55:41,220
took this phenomenon you know and

1481
00:55:44,630 --> 00:55:42,780
that that's just something that I think

1482
00:55:46,490 --> 00:55:44,640
you know if more people

1483
00:55:48,650 --> 00:55:46,500
um more more people are aware of it

1484
00:55:50,750 --> 00:55:48,660
might change the lens of how they view

1485
00:55:52,910 --> 00:55:50,760
this subject well if if our military and

1486
00:55:55,790 --> 00:55:52,920
our government really really took this

1487
00:55:57,589 --> 00:55:55,800
seriously to this extent you know

1488
00:55:59,750 --> 00:55:57,599
like John said there's just too much

1489
00:56:02,690 --> 00:55:59,760
smoke for there not to be fire

1490
00:56:04,790 --> 00:56:02,700
yep absolutely you know and I think you

1491
00:56:07,670 --> 00:56:04,800
know the fact that you're going pre-pro

1492
00:56:09,470 --> 00:56:07,680
Project Blue Book is uh vital because I

1493
00:56:11,510 --> 00:56:09,480
think you're right that's when it was

1494
00:56:13,430 --> 00:56:11,520
untainted it was

1495
00:56:15,589 --> 00:56:13,440
um really like you said they really

1496
00:56:17,690 --> 00:56:15,599
wanted to get to the bottom of this for

1497
00:56:19,870 --> 00:56:17,700
many reasons where by the time we get to

1498
00:56:23,150 --> 00:56:19,880
Blue Book you can tell it was kind of a

1499
00:56:25,309 --> 00:56:23,160
uh almost like a publicity stunt to kind

1500
00:56:28,309 --> 00:56:25,319
of kind of calm the nerves of the

1501
00:56:30,349 --> 00:56:28,319
American public and um tell them we got

1502
00:56:32,750 --> 00:56:30,359
this it's under control you know either

1503
00:56:34,849 --> 00:56:32,760
we can explain what it is or people are

1504
00:56:37,370 --> 00:56:34,859
crazy and you don't have to worry about

1505
00:56:39,950 --> 00:56:37,380
those those nutsy and flying saucers

1506
00:56:41,569 --> 00:56:39,960
where sign you're right they really were

1507
00:56:43,609 --> 00:56:41,579
legitimately trying to figure out what

1508
00:56:45,650 --> 00:56:43,619
this was uh not to say they weren't with

1509
00:56:46,970 --> 00:56:45,660
blue book but you know once you get past

1510
00:56:48,770 --> 00:56:46,980
that

1511
00:56:51,290 --> 00:56:48,780
um at their Project Blue Book closed

1512
00:56:54,650 --> 00:56:51,300
supposedly there was nothing

1513
00:56:56,809 --> 00:56:54,660
um until the world changed in 2017. yeah

1514
00:56:59,870 --> 00:56:56,819
when we learned about the Secret

1515
00:57:01,790 --> 00:56:59,880
Pentagon program and now we're living in

1516
00:57:06,470 --> 00:57:01,800
an age where there's been Congressional

1517
00:57:08,809 --> 00:57:06,480
hearings on UFOs there's uh annual UAP

1518
00:57:11,750 --> 00:57:08,819
reports coming out from the Pentagon uh

1519
00:57:14,870 --> 00:57:11,760
about these things and we just got a new

1520
00:57:17,210 --> 00:57:14,880
office called Arrow um so I'd love to

1521
00:57:20,450 --> 00:57:17,220
get your guys thoughts on this where we

1522
00:57:23,089 --> 00:57:20,460
are in current day in the UFO discussion

1523
00:57:26,450 --> 00:57:23,099
the let me get this right the all domain

1524
00:57:27,770 --> 00:57:26,460
anomaly resolution office is what

1525
00:57:30,710 --> 00:57:27,780
they're calling it whether are going to

1526
00:57:32,650 --> 00:57:30,720
be looking at UFOs and transmedium craft

1527
00:57:35,390 --> 00:57:32,660
these supposed

1528
00:57:38,990 --> 00:57:35,400
objects that can go in the water come

1529
00:57:40,730 --> 00:57:39,000
out fly into space it's crazy so um yeah

1530
00:57:42,650 --> 00:57:40,740
love to get your guys thoughts you're

1531
00:57:45,230 --> 00:57:42,660
working on a comic about the historical

1532
00:57:47,809 --> 00:57:45,240
context of all this but we're now living

1533
00:57:50,150 --> 00:57:47,819
in a new age of UFO uh investigation

1534
00:57:52,910 --> 00:57:50,160
within the US government so

1535
00:57:54,410 --> 00:57:52,920
um yeah is is any of what's going on now

1536
00:57:56,750 --> 00:57:54,420
going to influence what you're doing

1537
00:57:58,370 --> 00:57:56,760
with the work on the comic

1538
00:58:00,470 --> 00:57:58,380
well it's really interesting what's

1539
00:58:01,730 --> 00:58:00,480
going on now I mean I mean first of all

1540
00:58:04,549 --> 00:58:01,740
I know people have their thoughts about

1541
00:58:05,930 --> 00:58:04,559
Louis zando and melon and all those but

1542
00:58:09,470 --> 00:58:05,940
at the end of the day like where was

1543
00:58:11,089 --> 00:58:09,480
ufology in in 80s the 90s even the 70s

1544
00:58:12,230 --> 00:58:11,099
through 90s it was in the gutter right

1545
00:58:14,150 --> 00:58:12,240
so the fact that we even have

1546
00:58:16,849 --> 00:58:14,160
Congressional hearings now the fact that

1547
00:58:18,349 --> 00:58:16,859
you know we have Arrow coming out

1548
00:58:19,730 --> 00:58:18,359
um they deserve quite a bit of credit

1549
00:58:23,450 --> 00:58:19,740
for at least bringing it to the

1550
00:58:25,849 --> 00:58:23,460
Forefront of public perception right and

1551
00:58:27,589 --> 00:58:25,859
personally I I do think that what we're

1552
00:58:28,190 --> 00:58:27,599
seeing is just

1553
00:58:32,270 --> 00:58:28,200
um

1554
00:58:34,190 --> 00:58:32,280
it's the language is very similar

1555
00:58:36,710 --> 00:58:34,200
um they just seem to be you know like

1556
00:58:37,609 --> 00:58:36,720
things seem to be repeating right now

1557
00:58:38,930 --> 00:58:37,619
they're saying yeah there's something

1558
00:58:40,490 --> 00:58:38,940
out there

1559
00:58:41,870 --> 00:58:40,500
um and we're gonna

1560
00:58:43,430 --> 00:58:41,880
you know we're gonna have an office to

1561
00:58:46,370 --> 00:58:43,440
kind of figure out what it is right

1562
00:58:47,930 --> 00:58:46,380
whereas in the 40s you know in 50s like

1563
00:58:50,210 --> 00:58:47,940
they said the same exact thing but they

1564
00:58:51,829 --> 00:58:50,220
kind of kept it internal now this is

1565
00:58:53,329 --> 00:58:51,839
like a public document like Arrow came

1566
00:58:55,849 --> 00:58:53,339
out it doesn't have to be Declassified

1567
00:58:58,970 --> 00:58:55,859
anybody can go on and check it out and

1568
00:59:00,470 --> 00:58:58,980
see that memorandum right so it's

1569
00:59:02,150 --> 00:59:00,480
important to look at the language that

1570
00:59:04,490 --> 00:59:02,160
they're using now you know the language

1571
00:59:07,130 --> 00:59:04,500
seems to imply something very hostile

1572
00:59:08,510 --> 00:59:07,140
which you know might not agree with

1573
00:59:10,849 --> 00:59:08,520
certain people's

1574
00:59:12,470 --> 00:59:10,859
um theories or anything like that but

1575
00:59:13,910 --> 00:59:12,480
but again if you just look at the

1576
00:59:16,309 --> 00:59:13,920
language and look at like what they're

1577
00:59:18,349 --> 00:59:16,319
saying like you know uh around military

1578
00:59:20,030 --> 00:59:18,359
installations around sensitive areas

1579
00:59:22,430 --> 00:59:20,040
things like that these seem to be

1580
00:59:24,230 --> 00:59:22,440
focused around very sensitive military

1581
00:59:26,270 --> 00:59:24,240
installations

1582
00:59:29,150 --> 00:59:26,280
um which again has been happening for 75

1583
00:59:32,630 --> 00:59:29,160
years it just now seems like they're

1584
00:59:35,210 --> 00:59:32,640
trying to to get it out in in the public

1585
00:59:36,349 --> 00:59:35,220
more so personally I think it's because

1586
00:59:40,910 --> 00:59:36,359
they can't

1587
00:59:42,589 --> 00:59:40,920
longer in terms of they've been trying

1588
00:59:44,870 --> 00:59:42,599
to get their their hands around it for

1589
00:59:46,430 --> 00:59:44,880
so long and now it's like okay well we

1590
00:59:47,990 --> 00:59:46,440
this is going to blow open sooner or

1591
00:59:50,329 --> 00:59:48,000
later so we might as well get on the

1592
00:59:51,829 --> 00:59:50,339
ball now right and at least like start

1593
00:59:54,589 --> 00:59:51,839
start being a little bit more

1594
00:59:57,770 --> 00:59:54,599
forthcoming also you know it does start

1595
01:00:00,890 --> 00:59:57,780
like a new era in a sense where I think

1596
01:00:03,470 --> 01:00:00,900
um the government would love to just

1597
01:00:05,750 --> 01:00:03,480
erase the last 75 years of of how they

1598
01:00:08,809 --> 01:00:05,760
handled you know this phenomenon right

1599
01:00:10,849 --> 01:00:08,819
it's a very embarrassing and two like

1600
01:00:13,190 --> 01:00:10,859
they they ruined a lot of people along

1601
01:00:14,510 --> 01:00:13,200
the way right so if they if they came

1602
01:00:17,450 --> 01:00:14,520
out and admit tomorrow this has been

1603
01:00:18,710 --> 01:00:17,460
real the whole time right like there's a

1604
01:00:21,349 --> 01:00:18,720
lot of people out there they're like

1605
01:00:23,630 --> 01:00:21,359
well you know I was ridiculed for this I

1606
01:00:25,549 --> 01:00:23,640
lost my job because of this

1607
01:00:27,530 --> 01:00:25,559
um you know red panda has a great

1608
01:00:30,349 --> 01:00:27,540
documentary series about like how they

1609
01:00:33,230 --> 01:00:30,359
had a whole uh it had pretty much like

1610
01:00:36,049 --> 01:00:33,240
had a whole program to to kind of to

1611
01:00:37,609 --> 01:00:36,059
make it look like this was a joke right

1612
01:00:39,289 --> 01:00:37,619
um which by the way I had one of his

1613
01:00:41,569 --> 01:00:39,299
videos playing at our booth so shout out

1614
01:00:44,210 --> 01:00:41,579
to red panda uh if you guys haven't seen

1615
01:00:46,370 --> 01:00:44,220
his documentaries they're by far the

1616
01:00:47,930 --> 01:00:46,380
best out there like he should be on

1617
01:00:49,069 --> 01:00:47,940
History Channel what you're seeing on

1618
01:00:50,390 --> 01:00:49,079
History Channel now with like the

1619
01:00:53,930 --> 01:00:50,400
Ancient Aliens nonsense and whatever

1620
01:00:56,450 --> 01:00:53,940
like it doesn't hold a candle you know

1621
01:00:59,089 --> 01:00:56,460
um but if you again my general sense is

1622
01:01:00,950 --> 01:00:59,099
it's it does seem to be repeating itself

1623
01:01:03,109 --> 01:01:00,960
the language is just a little bit more

1624
01:01:07,490 --> 01:01:03,119
assertive now you know and a little bit

1625
01:01:09,829 --> 01:01:07,500
more uh um concerning which for me is

1626
01:01:12,049 --> 01:01:09,839
very uh it's like well okay man that's

1627
01:01:13,730 --> 01:01:12,059
uh I mean a lot of us might have felt

1628
01:01:17,089 --> 01:01:13,740
that way but now if you guys are saying

1629
01:01:20,150 --> 01:01:17,099
that you know it's a little scarier

1630
01:01:21,950 --> 01:01:20,160
um and I know John has uh John might

1631
01:01:23,450 --> 01:01:21,960
feel similar in certain regards but he

1632
01:01:25,490 --> 01:01:23,460
definitely has his own point of view on

1633
01:01:27,589 --> 01:01:25,500
on what's going on and and how we got

1634
01:01:31,490 --> 01:01:27,599
here so I'll defer

1635
01:01:37,910 --> 01:01:32,770
I

1636
01:01:41,329 --> 01:01:37,920
when they talk about it more

1637
01:01:43,430 --> 01:01:41,339
so it's like if I didn't but I I believe

1638
01:01:44,750 --> 01:01:43,440
in the UFOs but if I didn't the

1639
01:01:47,990 --> 01:01:44,760
government coming out and making a

1640
01:01:51,770 --> 01:01:48,000
public statement about UFOs now existing

1641
01:01:55,670 --> 01:01:51,780
would make me not believe in UFOs

1642
01:01:58,069 --> 01:01:55,680
because I don't trust after 75 years of

1643
01:01:59,569 --> 01:01:58,079
discrediting people and hiding

1644
01:02:02,150 --> 01:01:59,579
information and suppressing and

1645
01:02:05,870 --> 01:02:02,160
suppressing information and harming the

1646
01:02:09,170 --> 01:02:05,880
careers and reputations of some of the

1647
01:02:11,930 --> 01:02:09,180
most brilliant uh engineers and

1648
01:02:15,230 --> 01:02:11,940
employees and so on and military people

1649
01:02:17,809 --> 01:02:15,240
you've ever had just to make sure that

1650
01:02:20,690 --> 01:02:17,819
they are also discredited in uh

1651
01:02:21,829 --> 01:02:20,700
disseminating this information I am very

1652
01:02:22,970 --> 01:02:21,839
very

1653
01:02:24,470 --> 01:02:22,980
um

1654
01:02:30,109 --> 01:02:24,480
uh

1655
01:02:32,750 --> 01:02:30,119
cautious and I'm also suspicious of why

1656
01:02:34,789 --> 01:02:32,760
they're now coming out and saying that

1657
01:02:37,910 --> 01:02:34,799
um you know if I'm going to assume

1658
01:02:41,150 --> 01:02:37,920
earnestness I think Tom is right that um

1659
01:02:42,950 --> 01:02:41,160
it's almost like maybe a priming uh in

1660
01:02:45,650 --> 01:02:42,960
terms of like guys this is gonna get out

1661
01:02:47,569 --> 01:02:45,660
of hand this is just gonna happen it's

1662
01:02:49,910 --> 01:02:47,579
gonna become more and more regular that

1663
01:02:52,309 --> 01:02:49,920
we can't deny it anymore so let's just

1664
01:02:54,950 --> 01:02:52,319
let it out little by little

1665
01:02:56,809 --> 01:02:54,960
um you know but there's still plenty of

1666
01:02:58,490 --> 01:02:56,819
classified documents they won't release

1667
01:03:00,349 --> 01:02:58,500
there's still plenty of documents they

1668
01:03:03,410 --> 01:03:00,359
can't even find I mean even the estimate

1669
01:03:05,030 --> 01:03:03,420
of the situation the original one

1670
01:03:06,349 --> 01:03:05,040
um because there were changes to it but

1671
01:03:08,030 --> 01:03:06,359
the original one we still don't know

1672
01:03:09,770 --> 01:03:08,040
where it is they they believe we don't

1673
01:03:11,870 --> 01:03:09,780
know if it's destroyed we don't know if

1674
01:03:13,670 --> 01:03:11,880
it's in the National Archives somewhere

1675
01:03:15,890 --> 01:03:13,680
which it might as well be destroyed

1676
01:03:17,690 --> 01:03:15,900
because it's like a needle in 100

1677
01:03:18,530 --> 01:03:17,700
Haystacks

1678
01:03:22,250 --> 01:03:18,540
um

1679
01:03:24,650 --> 01:03:22,260
you know so my direct answer is I don't

1680
01:03:29,150 --> 01:03:24,660
know I don't know what to think

1681
01:03:31,549 --> 01:03:29,160
um but I will say I don't trust uh the

1682
01:03:34,069 --> 01:03:31,559
information when

1683
01:03:37,430 --> 01:03:34,079
um their game is

1684
01:03:40,130 --> 01:03:37,440
you know to to put it lightly to massage

1685
01:03:42,470 --> 01:03:40,140
the truth and you know their their job

1686
01:03:45,170 --> 01:03:42,480
is to keep us safe and calm

1687
01:03:46,789 --> 01:03:45,180
um not to rile us up and get us paranoid

1688
01:03:49,309 --> 01:03:46,799
and you know

1689
01:03:51,770 --> 01:03:49,319
um but but I don't know maybe maybe

1690
01:03:53,450 --> 01:03:51,780
they're they're maybe they are trying to

1691
01:03:54,770 --> 01:03:53,460
get us paranoid I don't know

1692
01:03:57,049 --> 01:03:54,780
I don't know I actually would be

1693
01:03:58,789 --> 01:03:57,059
interested to know what you think

1694
01:04:01,609 --> 01:03:58,799
um because you're probably more versed

1695
01:04:03,789 --> 01:04:01,619
in this in the modern UFO stuff with

1696
01:04:07,609 --> 01:04:03,799
what's Just Happening than an iron

1697
01:04:10,970 --> 01:04:07,619
well you know and I mean not necessarily

1698
01:04:12,230 --> 01:04:10,980
I wish I was John um any anyone out

1699
01:04:16,069 --> 01:04:12,240
there who claims to be an expert on

1700
01:04:18,650 --> 01:04:16,079
these UFO UFOs is uh lying to you but

1701
01:04:20,450 --> 01:04:18,660
yeah I mean I do live breathe sleep a

1702
01:04:22,370 --> 01:04:20,460
lot of this stuff and try to stay up to

1703
01:04:25,549 --> 01:04:22,380
date with everything going on

1704
01:04:28,250 --> 01:04:25,559
um and I have made it very clear that uh

1705
01:04:31,069 --> 01:04:28,260
at least in my opinion ever since 2017

1706
01:04:33,589 --> 01:04:31,079
since the you know we learned about the

1707
01:04:35,390 --> 01:04:33,599
spent a gun program and in threats we've

1708
01:04:37,190 --> 01:04:35,400
heard that word a billion times at this

1709
01:04:39,770 --> 01:04:37,200
point and

1710
01:04:42,049 --> 01:04:39,780
um you've had people like luellizando

1711
01:04:44,030 --> 01:04:42,059
come out and Christopher Mellon and and

1712
01:04:46,370 --> 01:04:44,040
I don't know I I don't know what to make

1713
01:04:49,069 --> 01:04:46,380
up all of it for me personally

1714
01:04:50,930 --> 01:04:49,079
ever since that article came out it's

1715
01:04:53,690 --> 01:04:50,940
been in my back in the back of my mind

1716
01:04:56,809 --> 01:04:53,700
that this has all been planned this is

1717
01:04:59,390 --> 01:04:56,819
all a strategy for some reason what that

1718
01:05:01,910 --> 01:04:59,400
reason is I don't know but ever since

1719
01:05:05,569 --> 01:05:01,920
that article came out I believe that was

1720
01:05:07,849 --> 01:05:05,579
the moment the strategy began and I

1721
01:05:10,430 --> 01:05:07,859
don't know where it's heading but I do

1722
01:05:12,530 --> 01:05:10,440
feel that where we are today with this

1723
01:05:15,829 --> 01:05:12,540
new office with

1724
01:05:18,470 --> 01:05:15,839
um you know the the way the topic is

1725
01:05:20,990 --> 01:05:18,480
being portrayed to the public now that

1726
01:05:22,970 --> 01:05:21,000
it's all been planned for some reason I

1727
01:05:26,089 --> 01:05:22,980
don't know why I can't pretend to have

1728
01:05:29,750 --> 01:05:26,099
any answers to that but um you look at

1729
01:05:32,089 --> 01:05:29,760
this situation in Ukraine and and you're

1730
01:05:34,190 --> 01:05:32,099
you have to wonder like

1731
01:05:37,490 --> 01:05:34,200
we did know something was going to

1732
01:05:39,589 --> 01:05:37,500
happen with Russia we we we saw the

1733
01:05:41,210 --> 01:05:39,599
writing on the wall that something was

1734
01:05:43,490 --> 01:05:41,220
going to happen between Russia and

1735
01:05:45,349 --> 01:05:43,500
Ukraine our U.S intelligence has known

1736
01:05:48,349 --> 01:05:45,359
this for a long time it was just a

1737
01:05:51,170 --> 01:05:48,359
matter of when and then what happens in

1738
01:05:53,809 --> 01:05:51,180
the meantime this entire UFO story

1739
01:05:55,309 --> 01:05:53,819
explodes into the mainstream and now

1740
01:05:58,309 --> 01:05:55,319
we're hearing there's things in the

1741
01:06:01,549 --> 01:05:58,319
skies that we don't know whose they are

1742
01:06:03,230 --> 01:06:01,559
um and it does truly make me wonder it

1743
01:06:05,750 --> 01:06:03,240
really does everything that's happened

1744
01:06:08,630 --> 01:06:05,760
from 2017 on

1745
01:06:11,750 --> 01:06:08,640
um is this part of some big game being

1746
01:06:13,970 --> 01:06:11,760
played between these superpowers I I

1747
01:06:16,970 --> 01:06:13,980
honestly can't tell you

1748
01:06:19,370 --> 01:06:16,980
um and everyone talks about Russia but I

1749
01:06:21,589 --> 01:06:19,380
mean look at what China no one ever

1750
01:06:24,049 --> 01:06:21,599
talks about China and the uh the Drone

1751
01:06:27,109 --> 01:06:24,059
technology that they they have right now

1752
01:06:29,809 --> 01:06:27,119
is absolutely incredible

1753
01:06:31,910 --> 01:06:29,819
um so we got to keep that in mind too so

1754
01:06:34,130 --> 01:06:31,920
yeah that's kind of where I'm at uh that

1755
01:06:35,990 --> 01:06:34,140
was a very long-winded answer I don't

1756
01:06:39,589 --> 01:06:36,000
know I don't know why all this is

1757
01:06:42,049 --> 01:06:39,599
happening now but I find it fascinating

1758
01:06:46,069 --> 01:06:42,059
but I also try to remind people you know

1759
01:06:47,630 --> 01:06:46,079
for every military UFO scene over a

1760
01:06:50,089 --> 01:06:47,640
military installation there's like a

1761
01:06:53,270 --> 01:06:50,099
hundred civilian Witnesses someone like

1762
01:06:55,970 --> 01:06:53,280
Kenneth Arnold uh who saw something and

1763
01:06:59,089 --> 01:06:55,980
uh is wrestling with what they saw as

1764
01:07:00,730 --> 01:06:59,099
well so uh yeah that's what I try to

1765
01:07:04,549 --> 01:07:00,740
remind people of yeah for every

1766
01:07:06,650 --> 01:07:04,559
government military UFO case there's a

1767
01:07:11,029 --> 01:07:06,660
hundred other cases out there to look at

1768
01:07:13,370 --> 01:07:11,039
as well so yeah yeah that's my really

1769
01:07:14,990 --> 01:07:13,380
rambling thoughts on everything going on

1770
01:07:17,029 --> 01:07:15,000
right now

1771
01:07:18,289 --> 01:07:17,039
I mean it's it's just like interesting

1772
01:07:20,510 --> 01:07:18,299
because again the wording that they're

1773
01:07:23,809 --> 01:07:20,520
using is a lot more pointed and a lot

1774
01:07:26,150 --> 01:07:23,819
more like like these are this this is a

1775
01:07:28,309 --> 01:07:26,160
threat not that this is something that's

1776
01:07:30,230 --> 01:07:28,319
just might be out there

1777
01:07:32,390 --> 01:07:30,240
um that this that this could pose a

1778
01:07:35,510 --> 01:07:32,400
national security threat and you know

1779
01:07:37,549 --> 01:07:35,520
again this was the fear back in 47 and

1780
01:07:39,829 --> 01:07:37,559
it's almost it's wild that it took 75

1781
01:07:41,750 --> 01:07:39,839
years to go from the fear to now go to

1782
01:07:43,490 --> 01:07:41,760
admitting that this is a national

1783
01:07:46,430 --> 01:07:43,500
security threat if it's not taken

1784
01:07:48,170 --> 01:07:46,440
seriously you know and I I really I urge

1785
01:07:51,170 --> 01:07:48,180
people to like go and do their research

1786
01:07:53,270 --> 01:07:51,180
and look into project sign

1787
01:07:55,190 --> 01:07:53,280
um really like looking to the

1788
01:07:57,230 --> 01:07:55,200
correspondences between people like

1789
01:07:58,670 --> 01:07:57,240
Garrett's original estimate

1790
01:08:01,190 --> 01:07:58,680
um from the Pentagon and then the

1791
01:08:04,789 --> 01:08:01,200
Twining memo you know like

1792
01:08:07,910 --> 01:08:04,799
you'll find a lot of what we're hearing

1793
01:08:10,549 --> 01:08:07,920
and seeing now is being repeated

1794
01:08:12,650 --> 01:08:10,559
um and you know for me just have to ask

1795
01:08:14,270 --> 01:08:12,660
well why now you know what's what's the

1796
01:08:15,829 --> 01:08:14,280
difference now

1797
01:08:17,570 --> 01:08:15,839
um because it does seem like after the

1798
01:08:18,890 --> 01:08:17,580
70s this was just like a whole kaibosh

1799
01:08:20,269 --> 01:08:18,900
on the whole thing it's just like we're

1800
01:08:21,709 --> 01:08:20,279
not even gonna

1801
01:08:23,809 --> 01:08:21,719
we're not going to mention it we're not

1802
01:08:26,150 --> 01:08:23,819
going to talk about it and they just

1803
01:08:27,590 --> 01:08:26,160
seem so so much more open now so like I

1804
01:08:29,809 --> 01:08:27,600
mean again personally I think they're

1805
01:08:30,950 --> 01:08:29,819
just getting a little desperate and they

1806
01:08:34,189 --> 01:08:30,960
probably haven't handled it the right

1807
01:08:37,669 --> 01:08:34,199
way you know so now they're they're

1808
01:08:40,309 --> 01:08:37,679
trying to hopefully you know wrap their

1809
01:08:43,550 --> 01:08:40,319
their hands around it but this time with

1810
01:08:46,789 --> 01:08:43,560
the public involved so

1811
01:08:48,769 --> 01:08:46,799
I hope so man I I do hope the public is

1812
01:08:50,930 --> 01:08:48,779
involved I hope they're more transparent

1813
01:08:53,630 --> 01:08:50,940
than they have been in the past as

1814
01:08:55,550 --> 01:08:53,640
represented in your comic and um I I

1815
01:08:58,610 --> 01:08:55,560
can't wait to see where all of it's

1816
01:09:01,249 --> 01:08:58,620
heading in terms of the comic and uh in

1817
01:09:03,169 --> 01:09:01,259
real life but uh I gotta ask you know

1818
01:09:05,390 --> 01:09:03,179
kind of final words I told you guys 45

1819
01:09:07,010 --> 01:09:05,400
minutes I've kept you here way longer

1820
01:09:08,329 --> 01:09:07,020
than that so you've been gracious with

1821
01:09:10,010 --> 01:09:08,339
your time

1822
01:09:12,470 --> 01:09:10,020
um what do you hope people will take

1823
01:09:13,910 --> 01:09:12,480
away from the comic each of you guys uh

1824
01:09:16,249 --> 01:09:13,920
what is like the one thing you really

1825
01:09:19,309 --> 01:09:16,259
want people to take away from estimate

1826
01:09:22,130 --> 01:09:19,319
of the situation uh Thomas

1827
01:09:25,189 --> 01:09:22,140
oh wait sorry John or

1828
01:09:26,689 --> 01:09:25,199
Tom oh uh I mean I I touched on it

1829
01:09:29,390 --> 01:09:26,699
earlier I really want people to walk

1830
01:09:31,249 --> 01:09:29,400
away with dates names events and have a

1831
01:09:33,530 --> 01:09:31,259
general idea of what what happened and

1832
01:09:35,809 --> 01:09:33,540
it was taken very seriously and again

1833
01:09:38,150 --> 01:09:35,819
you can take that and they can do the

1834
01:09:39,769 --> 01:09:38,160
research themselves and you know I do

1835
01:09:41,510 --> 01:09:39,779
plan on releasing like a list of sources

1836
01:09:43,130 --> 01:09:41,520
that we've used

1837
01:09:44,450 --> 01:09:43,140
um and it's just incredible researchers

1838
01:09:47,630 --> 01:09:44,460
that we've worked with you know like

1839
01:09:50,030 --> 01:09:47,640
like I I hit up Jen eldrick

1840
01:09:52,189 --> 01:09:50,040
um who is kind of a funny guy but he's

1841
01:09:54,590 --> 01:09:52,199
very straight laced about what happened

1842
01:09:56,689 --> 01:09:54,600
Wendy Connors who passed away

1843
01:09:59,090 --> 01:09:56,699
um earlier this year who you know we had

1844
01:10:00,770 --> 01:09:59,100
it back and forth for a couple months

1845
01:10:04,189 --> 01:10:00,780
um and she was extremely helpful I mean

1846
01:10:07,189 --> 01:10:04,199
she sent us an archive of interviews

1847
01:10:09,530 --> 01:10:07,199
um with uh with the the relatives of

1848
01:10:11,810 --> 01:10:09,540
project sign which John I know found

1849
01:10:13,970 --> 01:10:11,820
extremely helpful Like direman's Son

1850
01:10:15,590 --> 01:10:13,980
lutting Sun the people who are involved

1851
01:10:17,750 --> 01:10:15,600
you know and these are old school

1852
01:10:21,470 --> 01:10:17,760
researchers who really kind of cut their

1853
01:10:22,910 --> 01:10:21,480
teeth and you know like in this idea of

1854
01:10:24,950 --> 01:10:22,920
Journalism like we're gonna find out

1855
01:10:26,630 --> 01:10:24,960
what happened by completing the

1856
01:10:29,630 --> 01:10:26,640
historical record not by interjecting

1857
01:10:32,390 --> 01:10:29,640
your own opinion about it you know and I

1858
01:10:34,070 --> 01:10:32,400
really want to to kind of push that a

1859
01:10:35,390 --> 01:10:34,080
little bit you know

1860
01:10:36,950 --> 01:10:35,400
um and also I just I just personally

1861
01:10:38,870 --> 01:10:36,960
want people to enjoy the story you know

1862
01:10:41,450 --> 01:10:38,880
I think it's a very compelling story

1863
01:10:44,149 --> 01:10:41,460
um compelling individuals and again just

1864
01:10:46,669 --> 01:10:44,159
the the estimate of the situation the

1865
01:10:48,590 --> 01:10:46,679
document itself and the the hypothesis

1866
01:10:50,870 --> 01:10:48,600
that they ended up coming to or the

1867
01:10:53,330 --> 01:10:50,880
conclusion rather just the the Journey

1868
01:10:56,330 --> 01:10:53,340
of going from this probably domestic

1869
01:10:58,070 --> 01:10:56,340
project that we don't know about to uh

1870
01:10:59,630 --> 01:10:58,080
oh [\h__\h] it's not anybody's it's not

1871
01:11:02,510 --> 01:10:59,640
Russia it's not whatever you know

1872
01:11:04,970 --> 01:11:02,520
spoiler alert by the way but um we think

1873
01:11:08,450 --> 01:11:04,980
it's a very compelling Journey

1874
01:11:10,970 --> 01:11:08,460
um yeah I'll defer to John

1875
01:11:13,070 --> 01:11:10,980
yeah I'll keep it uh short because I've

1876
01:11:15,229 --> 01:11:13,080
been rambling a lot um I I want people

1877
01:11:18,169 --> 01:11:15,239
to be entertained I I hope it's uh they

1878
01:11:19,850 --> 01:11:18,179
find to be a compelling story uh first

1879
01:11:21,470 --> 01:11:19,860
and foremost I would say

1880
01:11:23,450 --> 01:11:21,480
um

1881
01:11:25,370 --> 01:11:23,460
you know especially for the people who

1882
01:11:26,689 --> 01:11:25,380
already know a lot of this history but

1883
01:11:28,310 --> 01:11:26,699
maybe not known to this specific story

1884
01:11:31,490 --> 01:11:28,320
you know a lot of you because we're

1885
01:11:33,649 --> 01:11:31,500
talking to uh much of the UFO Community

1886
01:11:36,649 --> 01:11:33,659
um and also like Tom said just to learn

1887
01:11:38,390 --> 01:11:36,659
and tell also um if you are skeptical to

1888
01:11:43,610 --> 01:11:38,400
become away from this with a newfound

1889
01:11:47,209 --> 01:11:43,620
respect for uh these uh the UFO

1890
01:11:50,330 --> 01:11:47,219
phenomenon and realize like this uh this

1891
01:11:51,830 --> 01:11:50,340
stuff is serious it's real

1892
01:11:55,070 --> 01:11:51,840
um yeah you know there's a lot of

1893
01:11:58,189 --> 01:11:55,080
baggage around that on both on all sides

1894
01:12:02,870 --> 01:11:58,199
um but yeah at the end of the day it's a

1895
01:12:06,229 --> 01:12:02,880
compelling story about a true phenomenon

1896
01:12:09,110 --> 01:12:06,239
I love that I love that and kind of last

1897
01:12:11,870 --> 01:12:09,120
question there on that that cover there

1898
01:12:13,669 --> 01:12:11,880
we're seeing the alien autopsy so I

1899
01:12:16,729 --> 01:12:13,679
gotta ask guys are we hitting Roswell

1900
01:12:18,590 --> 01:12:16,739
are are you gonna take us to Roswell

1901
01:12:20,990 --> 01:12:18,600
uh it's a bit of an Easter egg for the

1902
01:12:23,990 --> 01:12:21,000
cover we uh we are working or planning

1903
01:12:26,570 --> 01:12:24,000
on um doing a Roswell miniseries

1904
01:12:30,910 --> 01:12:26,580
um because Roswell itself is such a

1905
01:12:36,470 --> 01:12:33,649
yes you can please especially when it

1906
01:12:38,570 --> 01:12:36,480
comes to Roswell yeah no dude there's so

1907
01:12:40,790 --> 01:12:38,580
many accounts and so many

1908
01:12:43,729 --> 01:12:40,800
um like differing accounts of what

1909
01:12:45,410 --> 01:12:43,739
happened that day so for us to to really

1910
01:12:47,870 --> 01:12:45,420
get into it we're gonna have to do a lot

1911
01:12:49,490 --> 01:12:47,880
of research and tell this story

1912
01:12:50,930 --> 01:12:49,500
um as authentically as we can it does

1913
01:12:53,030 --> 01:12:50,940
give us a little bit more room to be a

1914
01:12:55,910 --> 01:12:53,040
little bit more creative uh in that

1915
01:12:57,350 --> 01:12:55,920
sense but you know that covers an Easter

1916
01:12:59,689 --> 01:12:57,360
egg it's a limited cover that we're

1917
01:13:01,250 --> 01:12:59,699
gonna put out but it's gonna be its own

1918
01:13:02,990 --> 01:13:01,260
separate miniseries and we're gonna try

1919
01:13:05,030 --> 01:13:03,000
to do Roswell Justice in a way that

1920
01:13:07,070 --> 01:13:05,040
hasn't been done before you know in

1921
01:13:08,570 --> 01:13:07,080
terms of like people who who again with

1922
01:13:11,270 --> 01:13:08,580
estimated situation they'll read it

1923
01:13:13,970 --> 01:13:11,280
they'll come up with names dates

1924
01:13:16,370 --> 01:13:13,980
um facts and be able to go on their own

1925
01:13:18,350 --> 01:13:16,380
journey in that sense again with Roswell

1926
01:13:20,870 --> 01:13:18,360
though it's just very um

1927
01:13:22,189 --> 01:13:20,880
it it it's very convoluted in in that

1928
01:13:23,870 --> 01:13:22,199
sense and any historian will tell you

1929
01:13:25,550 --> 01:13:23,880
like it's still up in the air like what

1930
01:13:27,350 --> 01:13:25,560
happened did it happen

1931
01:13:28,669 --> 01:13:27,360
um I personally believe it did I think

1932
01:13:31,430 --> 01:13:28,679
there's there's enough supporting

1933
01:13:33,229 --> 01:13:31,440
evidence for to make a case for it

1934
01:13:35,450 --> 01:13:33,239
um but it's also just it's such a cool

1935
01:13:37,910 --> 01:13:35,460
story in in you know in American lore

1936
01:13:39,530 --> 01:13:37,920
specifically when that video came out uh

1937
01:13:41,570 --> 01:13:39,540
it was in the 90s you know that took

1938
01:13:43,510 --> 01:13:41,580
everybody by storm and you know it

1939
01:13:45,649 --> 01:13:43,520
wasn't real was it that the center

1940
01:13:47,270 --> 01:13:45,659
centerelli film or I don't know how you

1941
01:13:50,450 --> 01:13:47,280
pronounce his name but then Tilly yeah

1942
01:13:52,850 --> 01:13:50,460
yeah yeah you know it's a very it was a

1943
01:13:56,090 --> 01:13:52,860
very compelling piece of work you almost

1944
01:13:58,189 --> 01:13:56,100
wish it was real right but

1945
01:14:00,770 --> 01:13:58,199
um it just again goes to show you that

1946
01:14:02,510 --> 01:14:00,780
like that Roswell specifically is

1947
01:14:04,729 --> 01:14:02,520
something that um

1948
01:14:07,130 --> 01:14:04,739
it is very convoluted and we have to

1949
01:14:08,630 --> 01:14:07,140
take some care with it you know I know

1950
01:14:10,450 --> 01:14:08,640
John particularly hates that cover just

1951
01:14:14,330 --> 01:14:10,460
because we show the alien in there but

1952
01:14:16,610 --> 01:14:14,340
yeah I love it for Roswell I mean just

1953
01:14:18,590 --> 01:14:16,620
because Roswell like Tom said there's so

1954
01:14:21,890 --> 01:14:18,600
much mysterious stuff they're huge

1955
01:14:23,750 --> 01:14:21,900
around it that uh we and it does give us

1956
01:14:26,030 --> 01:14:23,760
the freedom to be a lot more speculative

1957
01:14:28,189 --> 01:14:26,040
but there's gonna be a lot more creative

1958
01:14:32,870 --> 01:14:28,199
speculation in there that also that will

1959
01:14:35,090 --> 01:14:32,880
be grounded in at you know the research

1960
01:14:36,590 --> 01:14:35,100
um and the circumstantial evidence but

1961
01:14:39,350 --> 01:14:36,600
um we're gonna

1962
01:14:42,350 --> 01:14:39,360
Roswell allows us to have a lot of

1963
01:14:44,149 --> 01:14:42,360
strong opinions expressed

1964
01:14:46,669 --> 01:14:44,159
um because you sort you have to you have

1965
01:14:47,630 --> 01:14:46,679
to decide what happened there yeah you

1966
01:14:49,550 --> 01:14:47,640
know at the end of the day if you're

1967
01:14:51,410 --> 01:14:49,560
gonna tell that story you have to have

1968
01:14:53,930 --> 01:14:51,420
an opinion about what happened

1969
01:14:57,890 --> 01:14:53,940
I love it well I'm wishing you luck I

1970
01:14:59,930 --> 01:14:57,900
know it's no small feat to cover Roswell

1971
01:15:03,350 --> 01:14:59,940
um well guys of course the most

1972
01:15:05,270 --> 01:15:03,360
important question of the night I know

1973
01:15:07,610 --> 01:15:05,280
you have an interesting rollout for the

1974
01:15:10,370 --> 01:15:07,620
comic um so whoever wants to take this

1975
01:15:13,330 --> 01:15:10,380
when and where can we find estimate of

1976
01:15:16,189 --> 01:15:13,340
the situation oh man that is

1977
01:15:18,110 --> 01:15:16,199
that is the question so we uh we had a

1978
01:15:19,130 --> 01:15:18,120
comic book I mean a Comic-Con limited

1979
01:15:20,450 --> 01:15:19,140
run

1980
01:15:23,209 --> 01:15:20,460
um we almost sold out of that so that

1981
01:15:25,189 --> 01:15:23,219
was pretty cool and so I sent out a few

1982
01:15:27,470 --> 01:15:25,199
copies to members in the community who

1983
01:15:31,790 --> 01:15:27,480
supported us uh you know shout out to

1984
01:15:34,850 --> 01:15:31,800
Shane tupacabra uh chase you know um

1985
01:15:37,430 --> 01:15:34,860
Thomas Whitmore I know I'm missing other

1986
01:15:38,810 --> 01:15:37,440
people uh Christopher Woodford

1987
01:15:40,729 --> 01:15:38,820
um so we said we're sending them

1988
01:15:42,530 --> 01:15:40,739
Advanced copies and hopefully they get a

1989
01:15:45,649 --> 01:15:42,540
chance to kind of get it before anybody

1990
01:15:47,870 --> 01:15:45,659
else but we're rolling out with um like

1991
01:15:49,370 --> 01:15:47,880
a website probably next week probably by

1992
01:15:51,709 --> 01:15:49,380
Monday by the time this podcast comes

1993
01:15:55,430 --> 01:15:51,719
out and that would be Black Tie labs at

1994
01:15:57,709 --> 01:15:55,440
NYC for now right we're still figuring

1995
01:15:59,930 --> 01:15:57,719
this out it's we're like I can't stress

1996
01:16:01,370 --> 01:15:59,940
how small we are

1997
01:16:03,169 --> 01:16:01,380
um so and people will be able to order

1998
01:16:05,270 --> 01:16:03,179
online we'll be able to ship it out and

1999
01:16:07,669 --> 01:16:05,280
you know we uh we welcome any reviews

2000
01:16:09,709 --> 01:16:07,679
any any sort of thoughts things like

2001
01:16:11,870 --> 01:16:09,719
that you know like we love hearing about

2002
01:16:13,910 --> 01:16:11,880
what people think about it so

2003
01:16:15,890 --> 01:16:13,920
um because it helps us inform us as as

2004
01:16:18,770 --> 01:16:15,900
we go along with the this series which

2005
01:16:21,290 --> 01:16:18,780
is going to be an eight issue run so

2006
01:16:23,930 --> 01:16:21,300
um Black Tie Labs at NYC also uh

2007
01:16:25,490 --> 01:16:23,940
Instagram estimated situation and

2008
01:16:30,530 --> 01:16:25,500
probably the best place to get updates

2009
01:16:33,350 --> 01:16:30,540
is our Twitter uh eots underscore comic

2010
01:16:36,110 --> 01:16:33,360
um I'm super active on there and you

2011
01:16:38,209 --> 01:16:36,120
know I'm probably more active with

2012
01:16:40,130 --> 01:16:38,219
um actually being in the community like

2013
01:16:41,930 --> 01:16:40,140
I'll go into spaces I really won't speak

2014
01:16:43,729 --> 01:16:41,940
about the the project we're working on

2015
01:16:45,290 --> 01:16:43,739
but like I do like engaging the

2016
01:16:47,930 --> 01:16:45,300
community and hearing different thoughts

2017
01:16:49,490 --> 01:16:47,940
about this subject and I frankly I've

2018
01:16:51,470 --> 01:16:49,500
learned a lot you know

2019
01:16:53,570 --> 01:16:51,480
um so that's the best place to to check

2020
01:16:56,149 --> 01:16:53,580
it out right now is uh eots underscore

2021
01:16:59,149 --> 01:16:56,159
comic uh at Twitter

2022
01:17:01,250 --> 01:16:59,159
awesome well and hey um I gotta thank

2023
01:17:04,550 --> 01:17:01,260
you guys I this is just such a

2024
01:17:06,350 --> 01:17:04,560
incredible project I'm I'm so happy you

2025
01:17:08,149 --> 01:17:06,360
decided to pursue this and to see it

2026
01:17:10,310 --> 01:17:08,159
actually come to life now

2027
01:17:12,530 --> 01:17:10,320
um I I can't even imagine that feeling

2028
01:17:16,430 --> 01:17:12,540
so I I can't wait to see where it goes

2029
01:17:18,649 --> 01:17:16,440
my my pipe dream for this is you guys

2030
01:17:20,330 --> 01:17:18,659
both as actors in New York that we're

2031
01:17:23,630 --> 01:17:20,340
going to see estimate of the situation

2032
01:17:26,510 --> 01:17:23,640
in film or on the stage on Broadway

2033
01:17:28,430 --> 01:17:26,520
maybe someday I don't know but we would

2034
01:17:31,010 --> 01:17:28,440
love for this to be a movie

2035
01:17:33,470 --> 01:17:31,020
like I I personally don't want to I can

2036
01:17:34,910 --> 01:17:33,480
see it now yeah like like Oppenheimer

2037
01:17:36,830 --> 01:17:34,920
that trailer came out and like man like

2038
01:17:39,169 --> 01:17:36,840
why is this topic not taking when such

2039
01:17:41,270 --> 01:17:39,179
gravity you know like like that in a

2040
01:17:43,189 --> 01:17:41,280
style of that kind of a movie

2041
01:17:45,290 --> 01:17:43,199
um grounded in reality grounded in

2042
01:17:47,630 --> 01:17:45,300
historical Roots

2043
01:17:48,770 --> 01:17:47,640
um you know personally again like I I

2044
01:17:50,270 --> 01:17:48,780
would never want to be in front of the

2045
01:17:52,669 --> 01:17:50,280
camera when that happens but I would

2046
01:17:55,310 --> 01:17:52,679
love to see it come to life

2047
01:17:56,870 --> 01:17:55,320
I I see it I see it happening the future

2048
01:17:59,390 --> 01:17:56,880
looks bright for estimate of the

2049
01:18:01,370 --> 01:17:59,400
situation guys so please check it out go

2050
01:18:02,870 --> 01:18:01,380
to the socials we'll have links to

2051
01:18:05,870 --> 01:18:02,880
everything you guys are doing in the

2052
01:18:07,490 --> 01:18:05,880
show notes but um yeah yeah thank you

2053
01:18:09,290 --> 01:18:07,500
for joining us tonight on somewhere in

2054
01:18:11,810 --> 01:18:09,300
the skies and I'm wishing you all the

2055
01:18:13,550 --> 01:18:11,820
best for continued success for estimate

2056
01:18:15,530 --> 01:18:13,560
of the situation

2057
01:18:17,700 --> 01:18:15,540
awesome thanks Ryan this was awesome

2058
01:18:54,890 --> 01:18:17,710
thank you thank you so much great

2059
01:18:56,950 --> 01:18:54,900
[Music]

2060
01:18:57,410 --> 01:18:56,960
foreign